[Brian_Sleeman]

Greywalls is another good example of a tough par five as an opener.  You've got a wide open tee shot, and have a few easy options about where to position your second, but sooner or later you've got to take a shot at that tiny plateau green.  

The second there is no picnic, either, navigating a tough, rumpled fairway and then committing to and executing a solid route onto the green.  Big numbers are not rare on the first two there.

Regarding Crystal Downs, that tough start continues through the first four holes in my opinion, particularly when you're battling the prevailing SW winds.  But then again there is not much let-up there the whole way around.

[John Shimp]

Some good replies.  I was not thinking of just a tough hole #1 though.  It seems that WFW, Crystal Downs, Five Farms, and Wanamoissett have a difficult 2 to 4 holes that beat you on the way out of the blocks based on multiple mentions.  Are there others??  And architecturally is it desirable?  

Most Ross courses I know start pretty soft, and I think he intended that from what I've read.  Not sure about other architects.  Tom Paul's reply about a lack of practice fields back in the old days leading classic architects to build an easier start has some logic to it.

[John Kirk]

Add Plainfield to the list of great courses that starts with two hard par fours.

[PThomas]

any course that starts with a par 3 like Royal Lytham?

[Ash Towe]

I dont think difficult starts are particularly desirable.

The ones which are hard from my experience are-
Muirfield-Difficult tee shot to an angled fairway

Brookwater (Queensland, Aus)-Hard but good hole

Kinloch (New Zealand)-Long par 4, angled fairway, with bunkers in play off the tee, then a narrow entrance to the green.

[Kyle Henderson]

I think it depends on the type of player for which the course is geared. For resort or retirement community courses, a difficult opening stetch would seem foolish. For a tournament course or "player's club (e.g. Champions, Morgan Creek)" it would be suitable.

Personally, I like to have a little room to bash away on the first tee and see what I'm working with swing-wise, but not every course should be force to suit me.

My favorite opener is Tobacco Road's par 5. It gets narrow in spots, making it appear more difficult than it is, but there is a bounty of width to be found if you select your shots carefully. Beginners would struggle to finish the whole in less than 20 minutes, but anyone with a game plan and a sub-20 handicap should walk away with par.

[Sam Morrow]

Oak Tree - 1st hole, Edmund, Okla. Brutal long par-4, dogleg right with overhanging trees, hanging lie to a green just beyond a pond and steeply bunkered left and long as I recall. It's the hardest opening hole I've ever seen.

That's a pretty good one Brad, I can't recall the last time I finished that hole.

[TEPaul]

"Tom P.,
The idea of designing a tough opening hole as a legitmate 19th, where a playoff could be decided, has always fascinated me. It's definitely an old-fashion idea, from an era when match-play was king.
Re tough openings. How about Crystal Downs? The first hole is really tough, principally because of the slope of the green. And, I don't recall the uphill, par-4 second being a slouch either."


JeffM:

Crystal Downs #1 is a very good choice.

A tough opening hole designed to double as a playoff cutoff is pretty fascinating. I guess I've been in maybe half a dozen on that hole and to me it's pretty much a numbers game---in other words if the playoff is big it should be played to preserve the bogie because a fair number always seem to make worse than that by missing the green on either side. A bogie usually keeps you going. I've always liked to play that hole conservatively anyway just to not make worse than bogie but one time I was in a playoff in the Crump and so I had to get aggressive which I hate to do on that hole. I hit one in to a back pin about 4 feet, missed the putt and lost out in the playoff down the line anyway.

[James Bennett]

Add Plainfield to the list of great courses that starts with two hard par fours.

and then the third (the un-Plainfield long par 3 over the water),
followed by the shortish par 4 fourth where a precise uphill carry drive to the left is necessary unless you want to be right out of position with a nasty hanging lie to an unfriendly green,
follwoed by a challenging, undulating par 5 that continues a slight climb.

Plainfield is definitely not a "most Ross courses start pretty soft".  If your long game is not up to scratch at the start, Plainfield will find you out, big time.

James B

[Tom Jefferson]

The course that immediately came to mind is Olympic Club Lake....not the v. reasonable first, but holes 2 through 5.

If one considers only the opening hole in this discussion, then I offer Spyglass Hill....no need to say more.

Cold and crisp, fast and firm here on the southern oregon coast.

All the best,
Tom

[Eric_Terhorst]

I think it depends on the type of player for which the course is geared. For resort or retirement community courses, a difficult opening stetch would seem foolish. For a tournament course or "player's club (e.g. Champions, Morgan Creek)" it would be suitable.

Agreed.  On a resort course I may not see more than a few times, I don't care for a really difficult opener.  As a member of a club, I'd like to get things difficult right away.  

Lake Merced GC in San Francisco is a good example of the latter.  From the back tees:  Strong 432 yd par 4 1st generally into the wind from the ocean, iirc.  The 2nd is a tricky 390 yd par 4 requiring a good tee shot then some skill around and on the green, and the 3rd is a drop shot 186 yd par3 with a deceptively sloped  green and a swirling ocean breeze, usually across the hole.  Then the 4th is a 441 yd all-uphill brute.   It feels good to get 1 or 2 pars in that stretch.

[Sam Morrow]

Number 1 at Waterwood is one of the tougher starts I can think of in Texas, about 450 and plays quite a bit longer.

[Mike Benham]

How about the easy opening hole that is followed 4 brutal holes except that the easy opening hole, a 500 yard par 5 with no fairway bunkers, a gentle left to right dogleg and no green side bunkers is anything but a easy birdie hole.

[Matt_Cohn]

Oak Tree - 1st hole, Edmund, Okla. Brutal long par-4, dogleg right with overhanging trees, hanging lie to a green just beyond a pond and steeply bunkered left and long as I recall. It's the hardest opening hole I've ever seen.

Then #2 is a 400 yard par 4 around a lake with a crazy green, into a quartering wind.

#3 is one of the country's toughest par-5's, period. 585 into the wind with tiny, sloping landing areas.

#4 is 200 yards over water all the way.

[Sam Morrow]

Oak Tree - 1st hole, Edmund, Okla. Brutal long par-4, dogleg right with overhanging trees, hanging lie to a green just beyond a pond and steeply bunkered left and long as I recall. It's the hardest opening hole I've ever seen.

Then #2 is a 400 yard par 4 around a lake with a crazy green, into a quartering wind.

#3 is one of the country's toughest par-5's, period. 585 into the wind with tiny, sloping landing areas.

#4 is 200 yards over water all the way.

There aren't really any breathers anywhere at Oak Tree.

[J_ Crisham]

The 1st at The Dunes Club is a brute at 430 yds and no pratice range-tricky green.

[PCCraig]

How about the first two at Kiawah (Ocean). It doesn't get much more intimidating than those two tee shots!!!

[Gerry B]

the first 4 at san francisco golf club are tough - yes 1 is a shortish par 5 but spray your drive and pay the consequences

chicago golf club has tough 4 hole start

2-6 at merion east is no picnic and like sfgc - spray your drive on 1 and look out.

agree with waynem that oakmont's opener is a brute as is the opener at oak hill east

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Wannamoisset has a brutal start.  I think it goes 450, 475, 135 postage stamp, 450.  Only the first green is somewhat benign in slope.

[Matt_Cohn]

How about the easy opening hole that is followed 4 brutal holes except that the easy opening hole, a 500 yard par 5 with no fairway bunkers, a gentle left to right dogleg and no green side bunkers is anything but a easy birdie hole.

If that hole becomes a 500 hard par-4 in 2012, it will be THE hardest stretch of opening holes, period, d-o-n-e.

[Jim Nugent]

The course that immediately came to mind is Olympic Club Lake....not the v. reasonable first, but holes 2 through 5.

In 1966 Arnie previewed the U.S. Open, either in Sports Illustrated or maybe one of the golf magazines.  He said the key to the course was those first several holes.  I think he tore them apart in the tournament.  Maybe gave him a false sense of security coming down the home stretch that year.  

[Mark Pearce]

THe first at Muirfield is a beast in any sort of prevailing wind (in your face).  It killed the guys at the Senior Open last year on the Saturday, when the wind blew, averaging well over 5 for most of the day.  The 2nd and 3rd are relatively easy, however, so I don't think it counts.

[Jason Connor]

Here's an example I really like, Stanley Thompson's Sleepy Hollow outside of Cleveland

#1 is relatively easy, a downhill 500 yard par 5. Making birdie here is great because of what's about to come because you're about to hit the 3 toughest holes on the course.  

#2 is a 200+ yard par 3 with a deep narrow green and death to the right. Very hard hole to par.  #3 is a brutal 430 yard par 4 that requires not only a solid drive, but a drive to the right half of the fairway for any sort of look at the green.  Finally #4 isn't quite so bad, it's just a straight away 580 yard par 5.

If you get through 2-4 in par, it's a fantastic score on that series of 3-4-5.

So I think it's a great way to start.  #1 gives the player room for error. But by the time you walk off 4, you know which gave you've brought to the course with you.

[Lester George]

Justin,

Have you played the Old White since the completion of the restoration?  

I would hope you have because prior to the restoration I wouldn't think anyone would think is was "brutal start".  

Lester

[Anthony Butler]

Into any kind of wind the first at Heathlands is quite a beast. The last time I played it I hit driver, 5 wood, wedge to the opening par 4 and hit them all pretty good. Usually I get it out there 275-280.

I am not sure of the yardage from the backs but it must be at least 450, most of it uphill.

The 1st at Morfontaine is pretty tough. A driver and 4 iron, both out of the center of the club face, barely got me to the fringe.  

The thing that makes the first at Winged Foot a little easier is playing at the home of mulligan, which your member will insist you take unless it's a competition.

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