What can Golfweek do architecturally to earn back the trust?

[John Kavanaugh]

I would like to see them at least take the same ethical stance as Digest took with Erin Hills and not allow Bandon IV to be ranked by their magazine.  This is a very small step when compared to what would need to be done to remove every question of ads vs rankings or opinions vs access.  This the time for Golfweek to be a leader in ethical architectural reporting.  It is time for their new editor to take a stance instead of just posting weak apologies on web sites and/or in a magazine that can not be purchased at any public facility.

What do you think Golfweek can do?  How do you think they will start and what do you predict will grace the covers of the near future?   What would you do?

[John Kavanaugh]

Here is a link to the apology posted yesterday:  http://www.golfweek.com/story/golfweekapology_news_012008

He says "We are examining our policies, procedures and practices to ensure sensitivity, responsibility and adherence. And we are recommitting ourselves to being golf’s news leader and to covering the many facets of a game so many of you love. We share that passion for the game and what it represents."  

Do any of you buy this load of crap?  I don't get the last sentence.  What does the game represent?

[John Kavanaugh]

Well, golf has always represented a microcosm of life.  

One facet of it was that if you wanted to play your best, when things went against you (you whiff the shot, hit it OB, miss a 2 footer, or just get a really lousy break), you had to learn to shake it off, focus on the next shot, not let past shots get to you and get your mind out of the past.

Successful players of the game are able to do precisely that.

The unsuccessful dwell in the past (particularly bad breaks), whine about it hole after hole, and allow it to not only hinder their game but also affect their fellow players' ability to play their best game, too, due to all the distracting whining...    

Are you saying that if Golfweek pretends none of this ever happened they will be representing the game?  I must say that is a genius spin job.

[John Moore II]

I am not certain how they have lost the trust of people from an architectural stand point. The cover was not architectural in origins. Your point about not ranking the new Bandon course is a good one, just not certain if they will follow it. But I do not think the cover or anything they have done recently affects the magazines trustworthiness from an architectural standpoint.

[Matthew Hunt]

Why should it not rank Bandon No. 4?

Is it because of cross-over between their team at Golf Week and that at Bandon’s ‘committee’? Could they not do the normal thing and ban the just those involved from rating it?  
 

[Lloyd_Cole]

I am not certain how they have lost the trust of people from an architectural stand point.

I don't think they lost any. Brad is in charge of that side of things and clearly this had nothing to do with him. Should he leave, then they should worry.

[John Kavanaugh]

I am not certain how they have lost the trust of people from an architectural stand point. The cover was not architectural in origins. Your point about not ranking the new Bandon course is a good one, just not certain if they will follow it. But I do not think the cover or anything they have done recently affects the magazines trustworthiness from an architectural standpoint.

Can you pick and choose trust?  I guess this could be like the New York Times where you trust their movie reviews and burn their political commentary.  It is they who say they want us to earn back their trust, now I wonder what that means.  note:  I do not believe a drop of ink hits those pages that is not motivated by profit.  So I wonder if they should even be concerned about trust.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why should it not rank Bandon No. 4?

Is it because of f cross-over between their team at Golf Week and that at Bandon’s ‘committee’? Could they not do the normal thing and ban the just those involved from rating it?  
 

Exactly, ban anyone who works under the thumb of any of the "architects" from rating it.  That is what Digest did with Erin Hills.  You have to remember that Golfweek also allows members to rate their own courses when Digest does not.  Golfweek has always placed itself above any reasonable or normal ethics.  They have been out of control for years because they do not care who pays for the magazine, they only serve their advertisers.  It is an out of control system.

[John Moore II]

Frankly-they have not lost my trust at all, in any way. They put the noose on the cover to do something that was shocking and sell magazines. It backfired. But making a poor decision does not cause me to not trust the magazine and its reporting. I have read pieces in the magazine I do not agree with, but that did not cause me to not trust what was put into print from that point on. Note: I KNOW that not a drop of ink is put into print in that magazine that is not motivated by profit. If you owned a business, would you not do things that are designed to earn a profit? I certainly would.

[tlavin]

The game represents integrity and responsibility.  It is one of the few "games" that is largely self-policing.  The stories of players calling themselves on rules violations are far too numerous to even begin to discuss.  A person with integrity and a sense of responsibility who makes an error that offends people and offends people's sensibility about the game that they cover should make an apology.  Golfweek's editor made a mistake.  His employer canned him.  Whether you think the penalty was too harsh or not harsh enough or perfectly appropriate, there is still room for apology.  Its apology didn't follow the time-honored non-apology route of apologizing "if" anybody "was offended", in straightforward fashion, they said the cover "offended our readers, advertisers", etcetera.  If somebody doesn't want to accept that apology or if they want to lampoon the situation, or if somebody wants to continue to swing brickbats, we always have the First Amendment at the ready.

[John Kavanaugh]

If they wanted to earn the trust of the golfing public they need to stop sending out free copies to golf clubs.  They need to become beholden to the golfers of the world and not the power brokers.  Why not become a once a month consumer based magazine...Why not let the golfing consumer decide if they survive?  Now that would improve content.

Or, they could go the Consumer Reports business model and completely do away with advertisers all together.  I would be first in line to subscribe to that.

[John Kavanaugh]

The game represents integrity and responsibility.  It is one of the few "games" that is largely self-policing.  The stories of players calling themselves on rules violations are far too numerous to even begin to discuss.  A person with integrity and a sense of responsibility who makes an error that offends people and offends people's sensibility about the game that they cover should make an apology.  Golfweek's editor made a mistake.  His employer canned him.  Whether you think the penalty was too harsh or not harsh enough or perfectly appropriate, there is still room for apology.  Its apology didn't follow the time-honored non-apology route of apologizing "if" anybody "was offended", in straightforward fashion, they said the cover "offended our readers, advertisers", etcetera.  If somebody doesn't want to accept that apology or if they want to lampoon the situation, or if somebody wants to continue to swing brickbats, we always have the First Amendment at the ready.

Terry,

I hope I am not casting an image of glee over this situation, lampooning, or throwing brickbats because that may show a lack of character on my part.  I will admit that I am never interested in apologies because they are too easy to produce.  They say they are going to change, I don't believe them because I don't know how they can.  I am sorry but I don't think they are.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have always read on this site about how golf is a game of integrity and responsibility but I have never played another game so engrossed in cheating and propagated by cheats.

[Joe Hancock]

I have always read on this site about how golf is a game of integrity and responsibility but I have never played another game so engrossed in cheating and propagated by cheats.

Have any of these negative attributes been observed of any of the participants of this site's group, by you personally?

Joe

[John Moore II]

I have always read on this site about how golf is a game of integrity and responsibility but I have never played another game so engrossed in cheating and propagated by cheats.

Wow, thats a strong statement. Perhaps the rest of us would like to know about how the game of golf is engrossed in cheating and propagated by cheats. I, myself, have rarely run into a person who knowingly and repeatedly cheats on the golf course. This needs some explaining. Thanx.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have always read on this site about how golf is a game of integrity and responsibility but I have never played another game so engrossed in cheating and propagated by cheats.

Have any of these negative attributes been observed of any of the participants of this site's group, by you personally?

Joe

Yes.  I'm not talking about sandbagging either.  I did not have the balls to call it out to their face so I will not name names now.  I guess you guys don't play for money or in tournaments or coach junior golf if you do not think this is a game of cheats.

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't want any of the good innocent people on this site to worry because the cheat knows who he is.  We made eye contact during the incident, I didn't have to call the infraction because my silence did not give him an out.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Can somebody explain the Bandon connection to this "noose"issue, I must be missing something?
thanks....

[John Kavanaugh]

Can somebody explain the Bandon connection to this "noose"issue, I must be missing something?
thanks....

The architectural editor of Digest worked on Erin Hills and took it out of the running to be rated by Digest.  The architectural editor of Golfweek is working on Bandon IV and is allowing it to be rated by Golfweek.  Do you see the conflict?

[Joe Hancock]

Well, one out of the many(hundreds?) you've golfed with from this site isn't an epidemic. It isn't acceptable, but not epidemic.

I don't play tournament golf any more. It is discouraging to witness the gamesmanship and shenanigans that people will resort to in an effort to win, or at the very least to do better.

Golfers are humans too, John. Don't hold them to a standard higher than they are capable of....and that includes you and I. We're all from the same mold.

Joe

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Thanks John..totally see the conflict.
I thought there was some direct conflict with the noose I was missing.
I do think raters in general should be able to view a course beyond an editors involvemnet though..naive maybe?

[Craig Sweet]

 "Well, golf has always represented a microcosm of life."

What??   That is fantasy....there isn't a sport on this earth that  represents "a microcosm of life".

[John Moore II]

You know, I think some people will cheat if given the chance to cheat, thats why if we see someone cheat, we should call them on it certainly. On a side note, I once saw a guy get caught for cheating at a Hooters Tour event. Four other players beat him down in the parking lot and told him if he ever came back, he'd get it even worse. Is that the best way to deal with cheats? No, but it worked in that case. Cheats only cheat as long as other people let them.

[John Kavanaugh]

Well, one out of the many(hundreds?) you've golfed with from this site isn't an epidemic. It isn't acceptable, but not epidemic.

I don't play tournament golf any more. It is discouraging to witness the gamesmanship and shenanigans that people will resort to in an effort to win, or at the very least to do better.

Golfers are humans too, John. Don't hold them to a standard higher than they are capable of....and that includes you and I. We're all from the same mold.

Joe

Joe,

I meant to say that the game was propagated by cheats, not specifically this site.  You then ask me if anyone I specifically had played with from this site cheated and I gave you an example.  You then say you quit tournaments because of cheats.  I guess you agree with me that this is not the game of integrity that it is played out to be.  Like I said before, the cheat knows who he is, it is not grey in the slightest.  

[John Kavanaugh]

You know, I think some people will cheat if given the chance to cheat, thats why if we see someone cheat, we should call them on it certainly. On a side note, I once saw a guy get caught for cheating at a Hooters Tour event. Four other players beat him down in the parking lot and told him if he ever came back, he'd get it even worse. Is that the best way to deal with cheats? No, but it worked in that case. Cheats only cheat as long as other people let them.

If I have failed at anything in life it has been my desire to forgive and give people the benefit of the doubt.  I tend to run from cheats and just play with people I can trust.  I also play match play against only people in my group.  I usually just let cheats live their lives and hope they die and sad and lonely deaths.  That has served me well so far.