[Jeff Doerr]

I'll be brave or foolish...

1 Fill in some of the first part of the fairway, a little cut on top of the hill. A little fill on the back and left of the green.
2 Benched tees. Fill in the middle and right of fairway. Ridge developed for the bunker in front of the green.
3 Green cut right side, fill used for left.
4 Cut into the dune for the snack shack/restroom. Some fill of small runoffs for fairway. Green cut into dune. Dune created for middle bunker. Dune extended for the closer bunker (30 yards out?)
5 I think 5 has shaping, but nothing major.
6 I think some of the 6th fairway might have been push up to build the 9th and the wall you see on the 6th tee. I get the feeling a lot of dirt was moved between these two holes. The right/back fall off of the green seems like it might have been dug out.
7 I think 7 might have a little fill in the fairway, but not much. Also, the green site is pretty natural.
8 Hill to the right/back of green is built up.
9 Tee box built up. Fairway built with big fill. Developed dune wall. Ridge between upper and lower build with cut from lower fairway.
10 Big cut in dune for green location.
11 Big fill for 11 green from cut at 10.
12 Dune/hill created for left front of green.
13 Fairway fill of small ravines. big cut of dune to create green site.
14 Dune cut off to create green site. Benched tees.
15 Raised tees, built up green site towards back dune.
16 Benched and filled green.
17 Big cut and fill to extend green to the left.
18 Fill of ravine in front of 18 tee, cut of left bunker with built up fairway. Dune built behind 18.

Wow, what a bunch of guesses! It was fun to think about it and try to remember all the various connecting hills and valleys. I'll look a little harder when I play it in about 3 1/2 weeks!

[Tom_Doak]

The correct answers to my pop quiz follow.

I don’t have time to grade papers this weekend, so I encourage you to grade yourselves and report positive scores here.  I’ll double-check the math of the person who claims the highest score.

Here goes!

Hole 1:  1) Cut ridge at top of landing area and softened some contours.  2) Filled green about six feet in the middle to bridge the gap between two ridges.

Hole 2:  3) There were a couple of small cuts and fills on the bank up to the landing area, to reduce ruggedness and give better visibility for short hitters.

Hole 3:  4) Green is about five feet of cut, with most of the fill going to soften the approach.  5) Also cut away a large dune on the right side of the green to create space for the back-right pin placement.

Hole 4:  6) Cut away dune on left to build green.  7) Entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand as it was blown down to sandstone.

Hole 5:  No real earthwork.  The lower right half of the green is maybe 3 feet of fill taken from the right side bunker.

Hole 6:   Middle tee is ten feet of fill over the top of a bury pit.  9) Contours of fairway and approach are pretty natural, but we had to dig a drainage line 18 feet deep through the gap about 70 yards short of the green and then put it all back together.  10) Filled significantly at the back left of the green … not the green itself but the bank going down behind the deep bunker.  It was a sheer drop all along the left of the green when we started.

Hole 7:  No real earthwork.  Some of the green is created from fill out of the bunkers on the left.

Hole 8:  11) Cut off the end of one of the ridges on the left sticking into the landing area.  12) Left half of green is four feet of fill, right side close to natural grade.

Hole 9:  13) Major cuts and fills at top of landing area to try and hold some balls up on top.  14) Both greens are pretty natural, although we had to fill a bit at the back of the upper green which fell away too quickly.

Hole 10:  15) Green is about four feet of fill.

Hole 11:  16) Green is about four feet of cut.

Hole 12:  17) Ridges on left (protecting tee #4) are all fill, as is the back of the bunker short of the green.  18) Like #4, entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand.

Hole 13:  19) Crest of landing area is cut three feet and left-to-right slope softened.  20) Like #4 and 12, entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand.

Hole 14:  21) Green is 10-15 feet of cut from top of dune ridge.  22) Left side of hole is 5-10 feet of fill to make recovery shots possible.

Hole 15:  23) Green was cut 4-5 feet but keeping size and shape of plateau.  24) Tees are filled … I think these are the only tees on the course with significant fill.

Hole 16:  25) Cut a ridge 150 yards off the tee so you could see into the fairway, and filled the bowl in front of the tee with the dirt to help short hitters.  26) Green is softened a bit but essentially natural.  Fairway contours are natural.

Hole 17:  27) Filled back left of green 6-8 feet to form right-to-left shape … the ridge originally ran pretty much along the line of play with a DEEP hollow all along left side.  28) Filled swale at back right of green 4-6 feet.

Hole 18:  29) Filled a bit to create upper (blue) tee, although there was a bit of a shelf there already.  30) Cut down ridge behind the huge bunker in the fairway, and used fill to create fairway around the back.  This was easily a ten-foot cut and fill.  31) Filled back right half of green 6-8 feet … the left entrance is natural grade but it fell into a deep hollow on the right, so it took us some time to decide this was the green site.


So the perfect score would be + 31 points.  

I don’t want to leave the impression that Pacific Dunes is not a minimalist course – we left alone a thousand things and changed 31 of them, nearly all of which was done to create greens or to fix an unmowable part of a fairway.  But the truth is that even the courses which are called minimalist require a lot of careful work to turn them into a golf course – and a lot more than most of you are aware.

[Tim Bert]

I have a potential +3 depending upon your interpretation of my responses.  Your comments were much more specific, so I don't know how you'll score for sure.

[Eric_Terhorst]

I make my score 10 wrong guesses, 9 correct  -11

or 8 wrong 11 correct (-5) if I count earthmoving without correctly identifying a cut or fill

Interesting to know how much fill went into 4, 12, and 13--thanks again for the data, Tom

[J Sadowsky]

My +1 is definitely going to score well.  Probably not win, though.

[Michael Dugger]

1st fairway cut, green fill      +2
2nd green fill        -2
3rd green cut off top of mound      +1
4th green cut into dune        +1  
5th green fill/bench into hill       +1
6th green cut a little              +1
7th green fill a little           +1
8th green cut      -2
9th upper and lower greens fairly well at grade        +2
10th at grade           -2  (this surprises me)
11th at grade           -2  (this too)
12th at grade           +1
13th green fill          +1  
14th green cut off top of dune           +1
15th green fill           -2  (this is a shock too)
16th green benched       +1
17th benched and filled              +1
18th fairway filled, green cut       net 0

I figure myself for 4 pts.

[Doug Wright]

I recused myself from the exercise because Mr. Doak had previously given me some information about this (eg the green work at #6). I probably wouldn't have done very well though. I'm quite surprised that there wasn't any cutting done on the right side of #8 green (Hole 8:  ...Left half of green is four feet of fill, right side close to natural grade. ) . I would have guessed the left side had some fill but was sure the right side would have been cut to create the wonderful contours there. Bottom line: what an amazing site for a golf course!

[Eric Olsen]

I think I have a score of 0 or plus 1, depending on interpretation.

Very fun exercise indeed!  Can't wait to look at it when I play again in March.

[Kalen Braley]

If the point structure had been setup for equal weight between correct and incorrect guesses, then I'd be in the positive numbers.  

However, on most holes I guessed one thing right and one thing wrong, and my ship sunk  

[Matthew Hunt]

3pts

[John Kirk]

OK, I'll try.  Fun idea.

18 - Cut landing area in fairway (+1)
17 - Fill left side of green (+1)
14 - Cut for the green (+1/2)
11 - Cut sand out of green area (+1)
7 - Looks like a fill in the fairway (-2)
6 - Flatten out the green and rear slope down to 2 green (cut and fill) (-2)
4 - Cut green, fill fairway or approach in a couple of places (+2)
3 - No idea, but I sure like it!
One last guess - Sand from 2 tee used to fill 1 green area. (-2, +1)

Using the following scoring, I'll give myself +1/2 points.

[Jeff Doerr]

Hole 1:  1) Cut ridge at top of landing area and softened some contours.  2) Filled green about six feet in the middle to bridge the gap between two ridges.
1 Fill in some of the first part of the fairway, a little cut on top of the hill. A little fill on the back and left of the green.
+2
Hole 2:  3) There were a couple of small cuts and fills on the bank up to the landing area, to reduce ruggedness and give better visibility for short hitters.
2 Benched tees. Fill in the middle and right of fairway. Ridge developed for the bunker in front of the green.
+1 and -1
Hole 3:  4) Green is about five feet of cut, with most of the fill going to soften the approach.  5) Also cut away a large dune on the right side of the green to create space for the back-right pin placement.
3 Green cut right side, fill used for left.
+2
Hole 4:  6) Cut away dune on left to build green.  7) Entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand as it was blown down to sandstone.
4 Cut into the dune for the snack shack/restroom. Some fill of small runoffs for fairway. Green cut into dune. Dune created for middle bunker. Dune extended for the closer bunker (30 yards out?)
+1 and -2
Hole 5:  No real earthwork.  The lower right half of the green is maybe 3 feet of fill taken from the right side bunker.
5 I think 5 has shaping, but nothing major.
+1
Hole 6:   Middle tee is ten feet of fill over the top of a bury pit.  9) Contours of fairway and approach are pretty natural, but we had to dig a drainage line 18 feet deep through the gap about 70 yards short of the green and then put it all back together.  10) Filled significantly at the back left of the green … not the green itself but the bank going down behind the deep bunker.  It was a sheer drop all along the left of the green when we started.
6 I think some of the 6th fairway might have been push up to build the 9th and the wall you see on the 6th tee. I get the feeling a lot of dirt was moved between these two holes. The right/back fall off of the green seems like it might have been dug out.
-2
Hole 7:  No real earthwork.  Some of the green is created from fill out of the bunkers on the left.
7 I think 7 might have a little fill in the fairway, but not much. Also, the green site is pretty natural.
(+1)
Hole 8:  11) Cut off the end of one of the ridges on the left sticking into the landing area.  12) Left half of green is four feet of fill, right side close to natural grade.
8 Hill to the right/back of green is built up.
-2
Hole 9:  13) Major cuts and fills at top of landing area to try and hold some balls up on top.  14) Both greens are pretty natural, although we had to fill a bit at the back of the upper green which fell away too quickly.
9 Tee box built up. Fairway built with big fill. Developed dune wall. Ridge between upper and lower build with cut from lower fairway.
+1 and -1
Hole 10:  15) Green is about four feet of fill.
10 Big cut in dune for green location.
-1

Hole 11:  16) Green is about four feet of cut.
11 Big fill for 11 green from cut at 10.
-1
Hole 12:  17) Ridges on left (protecting tee #4) are all fill, as is the back of the bunker short of the green.  18) Like #4, entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand.
12 Dune/hill created for left front of green.
+1 and -1
Hole 13:  19) Crest of landing area is cut three feet and left-to-right slope softened.  20) Like #4 and 12, entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand.
13 Fairway fill of small ravines. big cut of dune to create green site.
-2
Hole 14:  21) Green is 10-15 feet of cut from top of dune ridge.  22) Left side of hole is 5-10 feet of fill to make recovery shots possible.
14 Dune cut off to create green site. Benched tees.
+1 and -1
Hole 15:  23) Green was cut 4-5 feet but keeping size and shape of plateau.  24) Tees are filled … I think these are the only tees on the course with significant fill.
15 Raised tees, built up green site towards back dune.
-1 and +1
Hole 16:  25) Cut a ridge 150 yards off the tee so you could see into the fairway, and filled the bowl in front of the tee with the dirt to help short hitters.  26) Green is softened a bit but essentially natural.  Fairway contours are natural.
16 Benched and filled green.
-2
Hole 17:  27) Filled back left of green 6-8 feet to form right-to-left shape … the ridge originally ran pretty much along the line of play with a DEEP hollow all along left side.  28) Filled swale at back right of green 4-6 feet.
17 Big cut and fill to extend green to the left.
-1 and +1
Hole 18:  29) Filled a bit to create upper (blue) tee, although there was a bit of a shelf there already.  30) Cut down ridge behind the huge bunker in the fairway, and used fill to create fairway around the back.  This was easily a ten-foot cut and fill.  31) Filled back right half of green 6-8 feet … the left entrance is natural grade but it fell into a deep hollow on the right, so it took us some time to decide this was the green site.
18 Fill of ravine in front of 18 tee, cut of left bunker with built up fairway. Dune built behind 18.
+1 and  -2

Total = -6 or -5  (I think I’ll keep my day job!)

It will be fun to look for these in a few weeks.

[Tom_Doak]

Michael:

Sorry, but I don't quite agree with your scoring.  On hole 13, the green is not filled ... we actually cut the green 3 feet, and then capped it with sand to return to grade.  And on hole 18, you were right about the fill in the fairway (sort of) but wrong about the green, so that's a minus 1, not zero.  I have you at +2 points.

Which makes Matthew the leader in the clubhouse.  Not bad for a 15-year-old who lives 6000 miles away and has only seen the course in pictures!

[Tim Bert]

Tom - Does that mean you don't agree with my scoring?  I had myself at a potential +3.

[John Kirk]

Which makes Matthew the leader in the clubhouse.  Not bad for a 15-year-old who lives 6000 miles away and has only seen the course in pictures!

That's no fair.  His answer is too simple!

[Tom_Doak]

Tim B:

I didn't see your score because you didn't analyze it.  However, you got #9 wrong (no cut on the left side approach), and your answer for #14 is hazy (the green is actually cut from the top of a dune, although all the fill went to the left side).  You must have given yourself credit for one or the other of these, so I think you're runner-up.

Still waiting to see if somebody else scored higher without checking back here.  I'm off to the Dominican Republic tomorrow, will check back here when I return.

[Bill_McBride]

Let's hope you have a site as good as Pacific Dunes down there!

Did you think about leaving the ridge in front of the 16th tee so there would be another blind tee shot, or was one enough?

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:

No, I never thought about leaving the dune we took out on #16, for a couple of reasons:

a.  It blocked the view down the left side of the hole, which would have caused more people to go right off the tee, where most of the trouble is;

b.  We loved the little ripples in the fairway beyond that, so we wanted everybody to see them from the tee; and

c.  I thought the hole would be a great hole but would probably already be controversial enough because the second shot is so hard, so compounding that with a blind tee shot would've been too much.

[TaylorA]

Since I've never been there, the only thing this is going off of is photos of the place...

Cut:
3rd Green +1
10th Green -2
13th Green -2

Fill:
3rd Tee -2
6th Green +1
11th Tee -2
18th Tee +1

-5

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

No, I never thought about leaving the dune we took out on #16, for a couple of reasons:

a.  It blocked the view down the left side of the hole, which would have caused more people to go right off the tee, where most of the trouble is;

b.  We loved the little ripples in the fairway beyond that, so we wanted everybody to see them from the tee; and

c.  I thought the hole would be a great hole but would probably already be controversial enough because the second shot is so hard, so compounding that with a blind tee shot would've been too much.

Fair enough, that's three very good reasons.  And yes, it is a great hole, especially if you have a hard time counting the optional ways to play it.

[Michael Dugger]

Michael:

Sorry, but I don't quite agree with your scoring.  On hole 13, the green is not filled ... we actually cut the green 3 feet, and then capped it with sand to return to grade.  And on hole 18, you were right about the fill in the fairway (sort of) but wrong about the green, so that's a minus 1, not zero.  I have you at +2 points.

Busted!  Well, I guess that settles it.  I'll happily buy the book if it ever gets finished!!!!

[Matthew Hunt]

 
John Kirk, are you sure you are not my Physics teacher posting under a fake name Seriously, Tom thanks very much from me and on behalf everyone on this board for doing this and if you feel my answers are too simple I'll be happy to forfeit. John if you are my Physics teacher the reason I didn't go into detail is I remembered while doing this I had course-work for you  

Bill:

No, I never thought about leaving the dune we took out on #16, for a couple of reasons:

a.  It blocked the view down the left side of the hole, which would have caused more people to go right off the tee, where most of the trouble is;

Tom, would it have influened your desision if this was a members course so they could chose to take on the blind shot to get an easier 2nd shot?

[Tim Bert]

Tom,

You're right.  I gave myself credit for #9.  You mentioned both fill and cut in the fairway, so I thought I might be right about cut on the left side.

It looks like Matthew wins, but you ought to sign all of our copies when we purchase them as long as we've been waiting for this book.  I remember an email from you in 2004 or early 2005 telling me that I should have the book available before my June 2005 trip to Bandon.

[John Kirk]

Dear Matthew,

I am making reverse fun of Eric Terhorst, Michael Dugger, and others like myself who tried to give lots of answers, despite the double penalty of a wrong answer.  Mostly Eric Terhorst, who is otherwise a brilliant man.

I just looked at a photo of Royal County Down a few minutes ago.  That's a handsome part of the world, young man.  It's all downhill from here.

John

[Matthew Hunt]

I just looked at a photo of Royal County Down a few minutes ago.  That's a handsome part of the world, young man.  It's all downhill from here.

John

John,

I feel because of the area I have been brought up in I set my standards for Aesthetics are probably too high both on and off the golf course. For example I fail to see how the majority of Scottish links can be considered scenic or aesthetically pleasing. I feel if I choose to follow a career in Golf Course Architecture this inbuilt fussiness over looks could help because I have never seen a golf course in which that a couple of easy steps would greatly enhance their aesthetic qualities. As an example Kilkeel near RCD has AMAZING views over the sea and mountains but chooses to block these with trees but keeps open ugly views of the road and town.

All the Best;

Matthew

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