[Dean Stokes]

Matt, great to see all the holes again. Quite old these though. # 9 has changed alot off the tee with the right side being opened up and #11 now has a perfectly placed trap in the middle of the fairway at driving distance. The last picture is stood on #18 tee looking to the North over the Long Island Sound. If I knew how to put a photo on I would show you the 9th now.

[Ryan Farrow]

FYI,

The trees behind and immediately flanking the 15th green can't be touched.

They're Dwarf Beech Trees, indigenous to the bluffs and large dunes that rise abrubtly over Long Island sound.

Just like the Monterey Cypress that grow anywhere on the west coast. Well, I don't know about anywhere but they were growing in Santa Barbra.

But who am I kidding, I'm all for preservation, ignore me.

[Michael Dugger]

There has been some brazen talk about the merits of this hole.

Perhaps this image will help clear up what the architects started with....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael Dugger,

Thanks for the photo.

If Craig Disher could provide a pre-golf course aerial that might solve the mystery surrounding that area.

What's lost on many who look at the photo of # 15 is the magnificent transition from 14 tee, to the fairway, to the green, to the steps up and around the dune that serves as the foundation for the 15th tee, to the 15th tee.

That sudden, dramatically different, panoramic presentation of # 15 as you leave # 14 is indeed spectacular.

Another surprising visual is the one one gets when walking from # 16 green at Pacific Dunes to the 17th tee.

The transition from the previous  hole, highlighted by the view from the next tee is stunning.

After trudging up the stairs in the dunes from # 14 green at, that view of # 15 at Friar's Head has to be one of the great views in golf.

I relate it too leaving the punchbowl 16th green at NGLA and walking up to the 17th tee, where the view is nothing short of spectacular.

Similarly, the walk from # 17 green at Sebonack to the 18th tee provides that same "moment" for the golfer, as do some views from # 1, 10, 11 and 12.

[Michael Dugger]

I fully concur, Patrick, what did Tommy call those steps, a Stairway to Heaven?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael,

I think that there are special moments in golf, and arriving at the 15th tee at Friar's Head is one of them.

[John Kirk]

15 is not only beautiful, but a very good "hard" par four, an unusually good, strategic design (in my opinion).

TEP,

Quercus is the scientific genus name for the oak tree.  In northwest Oregon, we have quercus garryana, the Oregon white oak.  

[TEPaul]

"TEP,
Quercus is the scientific genus name for the oak tree.  In northwest Oregon, we have quercus garryana, the Oregon white oak."


Thank you John. In that case people posting on here should just say Oak tree rather than Quercus and not try to be so scientifically cute!    

[Jim Nugent]

Joseph's photos show me how much more I like color, as opposed to black and white.  Would like it if Ran could replace the B&W's in FH's profile with color pix.  

[Bob_Huntley]

I was destined to play Friars Head last year but my dog was in extremis and I had to cancel.

Looking at the photos posted, this looks like a dream golf course, I find it difficult to understand some of the criticisms offered on tree placements.

Anyone that could not play this course without a feeling of exhilaration must have litle soul.

Ken Bakst, I salute you.

Bob

[John Kirk]

It's terrific, Bob.  Very hard to describe in words what makes it so nice.  I'll try.  The course and club possess an intangible coherence.  Great ambience and subtle character.  Nice balance of holes.  Detailed, thoughtful shaping.  One of my favorites.

In California they have quercus agrifolia, the California live oak.

[TEPaul]

"Joseph's photos show me how much more I like color, as opposed to black and white.  Would like it if Ran could replace the B&W's in FH's profile with color pix."


No Way!

Ran's B&W photos are the best "retro" photos out there.  

[TEPaul]

Michael Dugger:

Thanks for posting that preconstruction photo of #15. I didn't know a photo existed of the preconstruction site on #15. I just remember it from walking it with Bill.

But I'm glad to see that photo because unlike the mound on #10 that was kept and basically used on that hole my recollection of those mounds on the left on #15 "preconstruction" is they may've been junk or debris and the photo above looks like they were. "Off the course" property is not far to the left and if those mounds were junk or debris it would make some sense.

[Brian Brown]

 While I could not find a pre-construction aerial I did find one during.  The course to the West is Fox Hollow Country Club.  It is a private layout that has held local qualifying for the US Open.  It has a great terrain as well but unfortunately was not designed as it could have been.  

[Mike Sweeney]

 While I could not find a pre-construction aerial I did find one during.  The course to the West is Fox Hollow Country Club.  It is a private layout that has held local qualifying for the US Open.  It has a great terrain as well but unfortunately was not designed as it could have been.  

It is actually Fox Hill but they are changing the name to Baiting Hollow Club this season:

http://www.baitinghollowclub.com





I always thought this was a very good RTJ course. The problem was the Sound property went to the condos and the 4 holes that lead to the old clubhouse/wedding facility were a little jammed in.

They appear to be building a new clubhouse and I am guessing it is separate from the catering facility because that was a big business, and the golf clubhouse was kind of stuck downstairs. I am guessing the course will be rerouted if the new clubhouse is where I think it is. It was public but shifted to an annual fee private model.

The new clubhouse:

[Jim Nugent]

"Joseph's photos show me how much more I like color, as opposed to black and white.  Would like it if Ran could replace the B&W's in FH's profile with color pix."


No Way!

Ran's B&W photos are the best "retro" photos out there.  

B&W are more artistic.  Color gives me (I think!) a better idea of what the course really looks like.  Maybe it's my lack of imagination.  

[Mark Bourgeois]

Paul,

Then ditch the blowout bunkers and go with a parkland style?

This is what I see:
Trees = parkland
Greeny-green grass = parkland
Bunkers = linksland

Personally / IMHO I can't see how these bunkers are congruent with trees that are closely packed, deciduous, AND close to the holes.

Maybe I just haven't been exposed to enough courses with a look like this.  Do you know of other examples where this look works?

Ah, are you serious?

Are you basing this opinion on like the two pictures we see here?

Perhaps having bunkers "congruent" with the rest of the property supercedes this one hole (15)

Regarding the grass, again, are you serious?  Maybe Joseph Rigo photoshopped the grass all uber green.  It sure looks awfully perfect to me.

Friars Head is freaking awesome

What does everybody think of Michael Dugger's comment above to have bunkers on one hole designed not for that hole but to correspond to those on the other 17 holes?  That's a tough one...And if the architect wasn't constrained, should he stay with that strategy or change the aesthetics of that one hole?  Would you make any changes to the hardwood forest lining this hole?  Or is your preference to keep the forest and this style of bunkering, together?

Patrick, thanks for the answer on the trees.  Birch trees I think very much like loamy soil, but I wonder how they manage to stay upright given the slopes, wind, and their shallow root systems.  Maybe there's a bit more chaos in there and these pics don't capture that, or maybe there's a thick, packed layer of detritus that provides stability.

Are bunkers of this style congruent with hardwood forests, though?  Where else do dense stands of deciduous trees appear right up against such bunkers?  I have seen deciduous trees near sand or even in sand in other places but the tenuous position didn't allow for many of them.  You might see a mott of oaks here and there or solitary trees hunched down in hollows. Or where the cover is heavier the trees nevertheless are shorter -- beaten down as it were.

It's especially striking to see bunkers evocative of a structural collapse and yet right next to them see something that doesn't appear to show the remotest signs of chaotic breakdown.

That pre-construction photo is helpful.  Is that some kind of creeper plant or hedge in bloom at the back of that corridor?  I see what looks like a row of orange-colored blooms.

Thanks,
Mark

[TEPaul]

"Are bunkers of this style congruent with hardwood forests, though?"

Mark:

I think what those who saw the site before construction are telling you and also showing you with preconstruction photos is that those bunkers are basically what was there with those trees before anything was done to the site. Therefore, that would pretty much have to make those bunkers congruent with those trees on that hole, wouldn't it?

The orange color you see in some areas of that photo is silt fencing. That kind of thing is generally required once construction comes to town.

[TaylorA]

The orange color you see in some areas of that photo is silt fencing. That kind of thing is generally required once construction comes to town.

Just to be precise, the orange fence is actually tree save fence, not silt fence. Silt fence is black and not as tall as tree save fence. It's orange in an effort to alert bulldozer operators that they shouldn't go any further, although it doesn't always work.

[TEPaul]

I wish you hadn't told me that Taylor but it's of no real matter because black or orange I'm still going to either rip them outta the ground and chuck them or at least put them where I want them.

[Brian Brown]

Mike,
Sorry I made the mistake with the name of the club, I actually got married at Georgios, the catering facility at Fox Hill.  Fox Hollow is another catering facility and I have a habit of reversing their names.

[John Sabino]

Ed - as requested a couple of pictues of the tricky, short "postage stamp" 16th hole.





Missing this hole to the right can do serious damage to your score.

[ed_getka]

Joseph,
   Thanks for the effort, but that is #17. #16 is the par 4 with the Gibraltar-type green.

[bstark]

    Very difficult hole. Even more difficult to measure the wind from any of the tees. The wind swirls in here off the water. Prevailing is from left to right. Spring usually is dead into your mug. Anything from a wedge to 6 iron is the call. Trivia: The first hole in one was accomplished by bouncing it off the left shoulder.  
   The discussion about cutting trees down on this stretch of  bluff would not make for a better golf course by any means, they belong on the property. Not to mention that it would cause a nightmare for erosion and winter wind problems.

[corey miller]

The trees are a rare speices.
The trees themselves are pretty cool.
Taking them down might cause erosion problems.
The locals probably would not allow it.

Those are all issues seperate from "would it make it a better golf course".

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