Lincoln Park - A gem of some kind ...

[Mike Benham]

The term hidden gem is usually reserved for a course of character that is typically off the beaten path.  No one would consider Lincoln Park in San Francisco a hidden gem for the above definition but beneath the under-funded or politically motivated lack of maintenance, Lincoln Park should be a gem in Bagdad By The Bay.  

Lincoln has all the features we enjoy, undulating fairways, blind tee and approach shots, options off the tee and theoretically, a variety of play for the approach shot, and naturally diverse greens.

If Reno is the Littlest Big City, then Lincoln Park is the Longest Short Course.  At only 5,100 yards, the hilly terrain, seaside heavy air, numerous doglegs and its ability to require more uphill then downhill shots, Lincoln plays closer to 6,000 yards for its par of 68.

Some scorecard facts:

-   The longest hole, the only par 5, is only 500 yards.
-   Only two par 4s are over 350 yards
-   6 par 4 are less than 300 yards but only two of them could be considered drivable.
-   2 par 3s are more than 239 yards in length.

We use the term “half par hole” and Lincoln has perhaps the most for any course I have played.  The short par 4s, if played properly, can be birdie regularly.  However, mishit your tee ball slightly and you will be scrambling for par.  The 16th and 17th holes, downhill par 3s at over 239 yards in length, are anything but a routine par.

And yes, the conditions are terrible, which is normal for the upcoming San Francisco City Championships.

[Matt_Cohn]

Geeze, that looks rough even for Lincoln.

[John Keenan]

Mike

How was the drainage after all the rain of late. I seem to remember always had some issues in this area.

Second what are the fees for non residents?

It is sad to see what is truly a great course in a great location be let go as Lincoln has been. I do not see it improving in the near term sadly

John

[Tom Huckaby]

I love Lincoln Park, always have - for all the reasons you state.

I hate Lincoln Park, always have - for all the reasons your pictures also state.

I've been playing that course since the 70s and I don't think I've EVER seen it in decent condition.  When I go there - which is sadly not that often any more - I just expect it to be awful, and make that part of the fun.  That is, it's masochistic golf.

I'd just hate to ever have to earn a real score there... you fellows playing in the SF City are going to have to have a VERY high patience quotient and get in VERY good with the golf gods.  

These pictures do make me wistful anyway.... man what a course that would be if it could be given some TLC.

[Sean_A]

I have to say the the pix look VERY impressive.  It seems like a tree management program and a decent super with a decent budget is all this course needs.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

For those of you who have never been to this location, it just can't be described how outstanding this neighborhood and piece of property is.  The location is just amazing with views of the ocean, bridge, north bay, etc all to be had.  And with the Legion of Honor right there as well...it is just a world class spot.

And as Huck suggests, its a real shame the course is in the condition it is.

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

You just summed it up perfectly.

However, it's been this way for a lot of years, and this is San Francisco, so it's difficult to be optomistic about the place.  As I say I've been going there for nearly 30 years now, and conditions have always sucked.  San Franciscans do tend to love their trees also... I shudder to think of the red tape involved in actually cutting one down.

So the place is what it is... and that is still typically very fun, if one can take the conditions with an ocean of salt, so to speak.

TH

[AndrewB]

-   6 par 4 are less than 300 yards but only two of them could be considered drivable.

Which two do you consider drivable, Mike?  I would have said four (not necessarily for me).

[Tom Huckaby]

Until Mike gets in front of a computer....

I'd say for the really big hitter it goes like this:

2 - driveable, needs hard cut but very doable
6 - very driveable even for me
7 - doable on dry days - need good roll down the hill
9 - uphill - would take quite a bomb - but I can see it being done
10 - doable
11 - doable, but requires a very hard hook and a very risky shot
14 - doable, kinda same as 11
15 - doable, kinda same as 11, 14 though

So that's a lot of holes where it CAN be done!

Note though that my experience with my friend Mike is that he tends to think very conservatively and cautiously on the golf course.  That's one of the reasons he's a darn good player.  So I'd say he would only ever try to drive the green on 2 and 6 - the rest he'd never bother.  So those are likely the two he has in mind.

He does tend to fool me though - so I will be interested in his answers!

But what four do you find driveable, Andrew?  And do you try on any?

TH

[AndrewB]

Two, six, 10, and 11.  I almost included 14 but that really requires a huge hook and I'm not sure if it's doable.  I didn't consider seven because the grass is always too long or the ground too wet to get much roll down that slope.  Nine and 15 are too long and uphill, so I wouldn't expect to see anyone reach them, or try given how many other chances there are.

I've always played these holes conservatively in The City and the other day was the first time I've ever hit driver on two, six, 10, 11, and 14.  I don't know what I'll do next month.

[Bill_McBride]

Until Mike gets in front of a computer....

I'd say for the really big hitter it goes like this:

2 - driveable, needs hard cut but very doable
6 - very driveable even for me
7 - doable on dry days - need good roll down the hill
9 - uphill - would take quite a bomb - but I can see it being done
10 - doable
11 - doable, but requires a very hard hook and a very risky shot
14 - doable, kinda same as 11
15 - doable, kinda same as 11, 14 though

So that's a lot of holes where it CAN be done!

Note though that my experience with my friend Mike is that he tends to think very conservatively and cautiously on the golf course.  That's one of the reasons he's a darn good player.  So I'd say he would only ever try to drive the green on 2 and 6 - the rest he'd never bother.  So those are likely the two he has in mind.

Hold on there, isn't #2 still a par 3?  It always was back in the day, played about 230 uphill, might as well have been a par 4!

Which hole is the one with the tee right up in front of the Palace of the Legion of Honor, drive over a big hill to a blind green?  That's the only one I ever drove.

"Love - hate" would perfectly describe Lincoln Park Golf Course!  Even that dark and dank clubhouse.....

[Michael Dugger]

I just love that bay area vegetation, it reeks of golf.

[Tom Huckaby]

Andrew:  I'd agree with you, the MOST driveable are 2, 6, 10, 11.  I'd guess you'll see lots of players trying on those next month.  I included 7 because I've seen it done, but remember I've been playing there a lot of years and yep, the course does get dry from time to time!  That is a longshot for sure though, as is 9.  I've never seen anyone come particularly close there, but man the massive distances the ball goes these days, I just have to believe it CAN be done.  Same goes for 15.

For the SF City, hell you know better than I do but I'd say going through those short par fours in a cumulative even par will not lose you strokes to the field.  So if I were the caddie for Mike (using him only because I know his game - sadly I've yet to see you play - no comment on setting up another game when Mike KNEW I was going to be gone - no I am not taking this personally although I am wondering why you guys hate me   ).....

We're not hitting ANY drivers.  The man has a strong wedge game and even on 2 and 6 I am advocating cautious play.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Until Mike gets in front of a computer....

I'd say for the really big hitter it goes like this:

2 - driveable, needs hard cut but very doable
6 - very driveable even for me
7 - doable on dry days - need good roll down the hill
9 - uphill - would take quite a bomb - but I can see it being done
10 - doable
11 - doable, but requires a very hard hook and a very risky shot
14 - doable, kinda same as 11
15 - doable, kinda same as 11, 14 though

So that's a lot of holes where it CAN be done!

Note though that my experience with my friend Mike is that he tends to think very conservatively and cautiously on the golf course.  That's one of the reasons he's a darn good player.  So I'd say he would only ever try to drive the green on 2 and 6 - the rest he'd never bother.  So those are likely the two he has in mind.

Hold on there, isn't #2 still a par 3?  It always was back in the day, played about 230 uphill, might as well have been a par 4!

Which hole is the one with the tee right up in front of the Palace of the Legion of Honor, drive over a big hill to a blind green?  That's the only one I ever drove.

"Love - hate" would perfectly describe Lincoln Park Golf Course!  Even that dark and dank clubhouse.....

Bill - they've changed the routing considerably since you've been there.  2 used to be a par three, yes.  Now you go farther left and that's now 2...  it's all changed... here's the map:

http://www.lincolnparkgc.com/course_map.htm

[Bill_McBride]

Hmm.  Looks like old #2 is current #12.  That routing was confused enough as it was.  Good luck to the guys playing in the City, patience and rub of the green, etc!

[John Moore II]

That course looks very good from the pictures. The conditioning could be helped with just a little bit of money put into the course. Golf courses don't take quite as much money as people think, as long as the Super knows whats going on. I agree though, this course could be a very great golf course with a little bit of funding, just like Wilmington (NC) Golf Club.

[Tom Huckaby]

That course looks very good from the pictures. The conditioning could be helped with just a little bit of money put into the course. Golf courses don't take quite as much money as people think, as long as the Super knows whats going on. I agree though, this course could be a very great golf course with a little bit of funding, just like Wilmington (NC) Golf Club.

Sadly Johnny, this is San Francisco.  Golf is rather low priority.  The course is what it is....

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

How much would you say that land is worth? In that part of San fran with those all-world views..

[Tom Huckaby]

No clue.  We need Mike for that.

TH

[Mike Benham]

-   6 par 4 are less than 300 yards but only two of them could be considered drivable.

Which two do you consider drivable, Mike?  I would have said four (not necessarily for me).

I'll remind Huckaby that we weren't playing the white tees and that there is not any "roll" during the winter months.  

A better assessment for the driveability should come from a more confident/aggressive/longer hitter like Matt Cohn.

2 - driveable, needs hard cut but very doable  A high baby cut works fine, if you carry it 250 yards ...
6 - very driveable even for me  The hard cut works here ...
7 - doable on dry days - need good roll down the hill  Wide fairway, open front to the green but at that distance, not likely ...
9 - uphill - would take quite a bomb - but I can see it being done   300 yards uphill, all carry - I don't think so ...
10 - doable   Doable ... but the miss zone is not very inviting ...
11 - doable, but requires a very hard hook and a very risky shot    The most likely "go for it" in my book, probably with a hooking 3wood.  The option of a layup with a long iron leaves a totally blind approach while a 3wood that doesn't hook, most likely leaves you with a shot where you could at least see the flagstick
14 - doable, kinda same as 11   Perhaps doable but a narrow chute between the trees and there is less room around the green to recover from a miss.  Of course, the approach from the layup area isn't a piece of cake either ...
15 - doable, kinda same as 11, 14 though   The card says it is only 280 yards but that is uphill and into the wind ...


Therefore, I say 6 and 11 are my choices for my game ...

[Matt_Cohn]

I think somebody a few months back put it in the mid nine digits.

[Tom Huckaby]

And I will remind Mike that while he is the center of the world and the SF City is a major, others might be interested in this in more general terms, so my answers in the descriptions were not specific to right now or to his game, but rather in the general.  I then narrowed it down after that to how I saw it for his game.  But given we are going Muccian, using colors and taking things out of context....

2 - driveable, needs hard cut but very doable  A high baby cut works fine, if you carry it 250 yards ...
CORRECT.  DOABLE FOR A LOT OF GOLFERS.

6 - very driveable even for me  The hard cut works here ...
CORRECT.  DOABLE FOR A LOT OF GOLFERS.

7 - doable on dry days - need good roll down the hill  Wide fairway, open front to the green but at that distance, not likely ...
UNLIKELY YES BUT I'VE SEEN IT DONE, AND THAT'S WITH OLD EQUIPMENT.  TODAY'S BOMBERS CAN GET THERE BUT YES THEY WILL NEED ROLL.

9 - uphill - would take quite a bomb - but I can see it being done  300 yards uphill, all carry - I don't think so ...
AGAIN UNLIKELY, BUT I WOULD NOT CALL IT IMPOSSIBLE AS THINGS ARE TODAY.

10 - doable  Doable ... but the miss zone is not very inviting ...
INDEED.

11 - doable, but requires a very hard hook and a very risky shot    The most likely "go for it" in my book, probably with a hooking 3wood.  The option of a layup with a long iron leaves a totally blind approach while a 3wood that doesn't hook, most likely leaves you with a shot where you could at least see the flagstick
THE BEST PLAY IS ACTUALLY STRAIGHT OUT SO YOU CAN SEE FROM THE FAR SIDE OF THE HUMP/HILL, BUT A CERTAIN CADDIE TOLD YOU THAT OFF LINE.  IN ANY CASE GOING FOR THIS GREEN IS EXCEEDINGLY RISKY GIVEN THE DEATH LEFT - I'VE SEEN WAY MORE SIXES THAN THREES MADE GOING FOR THE GREEN.  BUT IT CERTAINLY CAN BE DONE... I'VE DONE IT MYSELF!

14 - doable, kinda same as 11  Perhaps doable but a narrow chute between the trees and there is less room around the green to recover from a miss.  Of course, the approach from the layup area isn't a piece of cake either ...
THERE IS NO GOOD PLACE TO LEAVE IT ON THIS HOLE.  IN ANY CASE IT CAN BE REACHED, AS I SAY.

15 - doable, kinda same as 11, 14 though  The card says it is only 280 yards but that is uphill and into the wind ...
IF ONE CAN REACH 9 ONE CAN CERTAINLY REACH THIS.  AND I FEEL CONFIDENT THERE ARE GOLFERS WHO CAN DO BOTH.  THIS ISN'T ALL ABOUT MIKE BENHAM.


So there!
 

One thing you are correct about is that Matt would be the best source for this.  

[Tom Huckaby]

ps - if you go for 11 and I am caddie I drop the bag and walk in.  And this IS[/I] about your game now.  I'm open to discussion on 2 and 6, but on 11 we are gonna hit the hybrid straight out and to the right, and if it works we're clear, if not, we trust our damn good wedge game and trust the distance and not freak over a blind wedge.

[Tim Leahy]

After golfing in NoCal for thirty years I "discovered" this course a couple of years ago. Out of town rate during the week was $24 and 12 for a cart. I had never heard much positive about the course and I was shocked how great a site it was and how much fun it was to play. 16 and 17 have the best views of the Golden Gate Bridge in SF. Why the city doesn't put money into this course and charge out of towners $100 a head is baffling to me. The course is short enough that high handicappers can enjoy it and just long and tight enough that low handicappers won't get bored.

[Kevin_Reilly]

As Tom said above, this course has been in poor condition for years.  It was ragged in the late 1970's when I first played it (as a kid).  Back then, they didn't even use regulation flagsticks...instead they used shorter metal pipes that gave the illusion that the green was farther away.  I haven't been there in years, but would like to give it a go at some point soon.