[tlavin]

There is generally a lot of truth in overstatement.  This comment is no exception to that axiom.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think the thing that irritates me is the lack of tolerance for different kinds of design.  It is nice to say that TOC is the template for all courses. As much as I like TOC I enjoy other kinds of designs Variety is some of what I like the most about our game.

Kelly B M, how do you think Grandma would fare at Laurel Links?  

[Jim Thompson]

I think there ought to be a way for grandma to be able to play the course and have fun.  That doesn't mean she should expect to shoot 68.  In my opinion, playability is a good standard of architecture, scorability not so much.

[Tom_Doak]

Tommy:

I don't see it as a lack of tolerance; I think Thomson was simply making a point.  But, I know for a fact that he thought of St. Andrews and Royal Melbourne in a class by themselves, because they were so playable for the average person.

My mom would have appreciated the grandeur of Pine Valley, too; she just would have had to appreciate it without her clubs, and only on Sunday afternoons, I guess.

[TEPaul]

I never put too much importance on that kind of statement Thomson made. I think those kinds of statements can be accurately attributed to a lot of architects who never really stuck to those statements with what they did in architecture or even in what they admired in golf architecture.

[Sean_A]

Found this quote.

"When I first took up journalism, my kind but stern mentor laid down the principle that if my grandmother couldn't understand what I was writing about, it was a lousy piece of composition. I've come to carry this along into golf architecture. If my grandma can't play it, it's a lousy course."

Peter Thomson

I can't believe anyone would say this.  I guess we need to plow Pine Valley under and grow potatoes at Royal County Down.

Tommy,

I enjoy Peter Thomson's writing more often than not but there is no doubt that (like many good writers), he has quite a provocative nature.  If you take the tone of the quote, rather than the absolute literal interpretation, it is a point that I generally agree with.   Although I havent played Pine Valley, courses such as Royal Melbourne, Augusta and TOC are closer to the "ideal course" in my mind.  

Take out the word "lousy", is it a comment that you agree with or have any sympathy for?  

This seems reasonable to me.

Tommy - I don't think anybody is saying that "unplayable" (is this really what most championship courses have become?) courses are not welcome.  Sure they are, but they can't be considered ideal.  For some this is a positive note and for others it ain't.  Much like people go on about a great course having to have a short par 4, I believe a great course needs a few ball buster holes.  However, I have no interest in playing 9, 12 or 15 ball buster holes.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

...
Isn't the greatness of TOC imparted by the infinite subtleties that make every round there a learning experience? If grandma gets the whole message after one play, I'll just have her relay the gist of her experience to me and save myself the substantial greens fee.

To the penalty box for your Kyle until you figure out why your statement above is irrelevant.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom P:  Your last comment is funny because I think Thomson is one of the few guys who HAS tried to always be consistent in his beliefs on what was ideal architecture.

[Mark Smolens]

Mr. D, just curious, can your mom finish 16 and 17 at Apache Stronghold?  Mine loved the rest of the course, but rode in the cart after reaching her second shot on 16 (and dumping a range ball I gave her into the arroyo). . .

[Bob_Huntley]

How many have you played Bob?

None.

Bob

[Tommy Williamsen]

I understand the sentiment behind the statement.  And I would agree that the vast majority of courses, maybe even 90% should be playable for Granny.  Certainly it holds true for Country Clubs where playability is so important.  Yet there is also room for the occasional course that is designed for low handicappers without regard to players of lesser ability.  I realize this may offend the democratic sensibilities of some.  Nonetheless courses like PV,  Royal County Down, or even my own club Musgrove Mill do not cater to my grandmother, God rest her soul.

That said, my wife, who is a grandmother enjoys RCD and MM even though she cannot possibly play anywhere near her handicap.  But she is Norwegian and Norwegians like to suffer.  That is why they settle in Minnesosta.

[John Moore II]

I think that what Thomson was trying to say is that the course, from the forward tees should be playable by anyone. no huge forced carries, either from the tee or into the green. I would assume that is what he is meaning, and courses like that can provide challenge to the scratch player as well. I am not certain he means that everyone should be able to play well, just simply that it should not be impossible for that person to play.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Kelly B M, how do you think Grandma would fare at Laurel Links?  

Tommy, I've heard grandma does alright at Laurel, but frankly I don't listen to compliments because you just can't trust 'em.  I know one thing for sure, it is a heck of a lot easier for grandma to play Laurel then it is for her to find Jesus!  You were left with the harder task!!

AS I said in my e-mail to you I loved Laurel Links.  But it sure beat up the head pros at the tourney last summer.  As for finiding Jesus, I pretty much accept people wherever they are.  It is tough to agrue any one into faith.  I suspect I would get along ok with with your gma.

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