[Ryan Farrow]

I finally brought my camera to Papago today and had a great round of golf for $18. I sure hope the AGA doesn't screw up this golf course or touch its greens.

Here we go:































And a Merry Christmas to all!

[Brett Hochstein]

Nice photos.  At a buck a hole, that looks like good cheap fun.  Good movement and fitting with the land. I've known nothing about this place.  Who designed it, and were there redesigns along the way?  To me it looks old with some tweaking over the years

[Ryan Farrow]

Brett, the course is a Billy Bell Jr, designed some time in the 60's I believe. I am not sure there was any type of major renovation. I would love to know what happened to the bunkers as they are now volcanoes. I would say there are 3-4 average - below average golf holes while the rest are all good-very good. The par 3's in general, are poor. The green contouring is some of the best I have seen. And the fairway contouring is truly incredible and almost all of it is natural. I'd say the course could use some better bunker placement as well as shaping, wider fairways, removal of hundreds of trees and its in the top 100 public no problem.

[Jeff Doerr]

The green contouring is some of the best I have seen.

Ryan AND ALL,

How much of the cool old contours we see on courses is "hand made" and how much is natural settling that must have occured in the older design methods?

Also, is it hard to produce that same sense on USGA spec greens?

[Jon Wiggett]

Ryan,

the course looks good but they need to have some fake snow around the christmas tree  . The bunkers seem to be slightly raised, like volcanos. Why is that?

[Ryan Farrow]

Jeff, I must say that I have never heard of old greens settling, maybe fairways. I also don't see much limitation as far as green contouring in USGA spec greens. If you shape it well enough in the sub grade and your subsequent layers of gravel and sand were properly finished you should have no problem getting the desired shape. Plus there is some leeway in the sand layer where you can make a few inches of adjustments to get just how you want them. And to make a case for push-up non-usga greens, after this weeks relentless rain the greens were in very good shape and still fairly firm. I say, let them be for another 50 years. (as a side note I am not 100% sure that these greens were originals or even push ups. Hopefully someone can confirm)

[Ryan Farrow]

Jon, If I weren't heading back to Pittsburgh Friday I would do something about the snow, hopefully the decorations are down by the time I get back in mid January. As for the volcanoes, I have no frickin' clue. I can understand how the sand would build up the edges on the green side, but all the way around? I have no answer. I just hope to God it was not intentional.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Once one of the busiest munis in the country- golfers waited overnight a la Bethpage- conditions deteriorated and the construction started on many new courses in the area. Papago lost its cachet and play diminished. Conditions have improved somewhat recently as winter overseeding has resumed. It's easily walkable. It's been overlooked among the Grayhawks, Troon Norths and WeKoPas.

[Tom Yost]

Thanks for sharing the pics Ryan.  Nice colors this time of year.

I noted the odd rims around the bunkers last time I played it.  Was wondering if the way they were maintained allowed sand to gradually build up around the edges over the years?

Other than the addition/deletion of a few bunkers and the encroachment of the trees, no changes have been made to the course.  

Of the renovation proposals made to the city, the Lyons Golf Group proposal has a most interesting hole-by-hole description of features then and now, along with the suggested plans for restoration.  The proposal can be viewed/downloaded at the SavePapagoGolf web site.  Unfortunately, the graphics did not scan too well, but the text descriptions are worth a read (starts on page 46)

http://www.savepapagogolf.com/lyonsproposal.htm

I hope to play it a few more times before they close for the renovation scheduled to start in April.

Tom

[jeffwarne]

As a PGA member, I typically get comped for green fees, so price doesn't really matter.

This course looks like one I would enjoy playing.
The 7 or 8 higher end desert courses I've played had zero appeal to me.
The narrow fairways at Papago are probably a direct result of cost of overseeding and/or irrigation issues-Looks like a completely playable surface off the fairway though.

This probably belongs on Sean's price thread, but most of the "ON the radar" courses I've been to I don't have a burning desire to go back to, even though I might've spent little or nothing on the green fee,

Brora, Portsalon, Dunaverty, Aiken Golf Club,Perranporth-all are on my short list courses I want to get back to and every one of them is the least expensive of the courses we played in the area.
I can't think of too many high end, expensive course (Doonbeg,Troon, Ballybunion, Waterville, Kingsbarns)
that I'm in a hurry to get back to--
Well maybe RCD ---I've worked that into 3 different trips, but even that is just to appease players I'm traveling with and give me an excuse to check out Ardglass and Kirkistown Castle.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wow...now I'm really bummed that I won't be heading to Phoenix Christmas week as I had originally planned.

 

[Jeff Doerr]

Thanks for sharing the pics Ryan.  Nice colors this time of year.

I noted the odd rims around the bunkers last time I played it.  Was wondering if the way they were maintained allowed sand to gradually build up around the edges over the years?

Other than the addition/deletion of a few bunkers and the encroachment of the trees, no changes have been made to the course.  

Of the renovation proposals made to the city, the Lyons Golf Group proposal has a most interesting hole-by-hole description of features then and now, along with the suggested plans for restoration.  The proposal can be viewed/downloaded at the SavePapagoGolf web site.  Unfortunately, the graphics did not scan too well, but the text descriptions are worth a read (starts on page 46)

http://www.savepapagogolf.com/lyonsproposal.htm

I hope to play it a few more times before they close for the renovation scheduled to start in April.

Tom

Tom,

The link was awesome and I suggest a download for all who can handle the 47MB download. Really great insights into the project, history, etc.

This picture is priceless!
(Forrest, let me know if you want this pulled. I wish I was as highly motivated as a kid!)

[Jason Topp]

I played many 3 hour twilight nines at Papago in college in the 80's.  Often, there would be 5 groups on 3 tee.  I really enjoyed the course and the price.  Because of the pace, I probably only played the back nine 10 times.

It still looks the same.

[Mark Smolens]

Great pics and memories -- I can see that second hole from when I was in the third grade, pulling my Dad's pull cart with his regular group for $1 and a cheeseburger.  I'll definitely give my Troon card a rest next week and wander over to Papago.

[Ryan Farrow]

Tom, thanks for the link. When I have a little more time I will loose myself in it. The before and after shots looked pretty convincing to me. Oh what a place this could be.

[Tom Yost]

Wow...now I'm really bummed that I won't be heading to Phoenix Christmas week as I had originally planned.

 

Dang Mike,  I was hoping we could meet up for a round...  Oh well, maybe next time!

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