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Greg McMullin

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Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« on: December 11, 2007, 08:08:44 AM »
As some of you know I and a small but growing group of ‘friends’ have recently formed a group who’s goal is the raising of funds that will be used to create a life size bronze statue of Stanley Thompson. Once completed, the statue will be donated to the Highlands Links Golf Course in Cape Breton, N.S. and prominently displayed on the grounds of the course, serving as a tribute to Stanley and his work.
While gathering information and background for the project I started to ask myself if Stanley could ever be recognized by the World Golf Hall of Fame for his contribution to the game. Hummmmmmm …… I checked the WG site and found that of the current 126 Hall of Fame members 3 were architects:

-Donald Ross - 1977
-Robert Trent Jones Sr. - 1987
-Alister MacKenzie – 2005
(*Charles Blair MacDonald was inducted in 2007 for his contribution as a Player, USGA Founder and Architect)

I’d like to gather some feedback from the GCA members and see if I’m in need of a reality check or not? ;)


Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 08:39:27 AM »
Hi Greg.

There are more than three course architects in the World Golf Hall of Fame. Though I presume you mean guys who were stirctly course architects, not players as well.

I don't see why Stanley Thompson wouldn't be inducted someday for his contributions to the game... particularly in Canada. But there are a couple other architects ahead of him in that line, in my opinion; namely, A.W. Tillinghast and Willie Park Jnr. whose overall contributions to golf, by comparison, are much more prolific and impactful than Thompson's.
jeffmingay.com

Brad Klein

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 09:04:13 AM »
and not Pete Dye?

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 09:20:05 AM »
Nice one, Brad.

Pete will be in FOR SURE, I presume.
jeffmingay.com

Brad Klein

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 09:52:06 AM »
Folks are already working on it -- along with Herbert Warren Wind, who unaccountably is also not (yet) in.

Greg McMullin

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 10:13:20 AM »
Jeff,
Jeff, I too have been thinking about the impact that Stanley Thompson had on the sport of golf. What about this logic  ---- Thompson looks to have created about 50 original designs primarily in Canada. Tillinghast looks to have about 85 original designs attributed to him. Given that Canada is and has been aprox. 1/10th the size with 1/10th the number of golf courses compared to the US, would it be possible to argue that in fact Thompson had a larger per capita impact on the game than did Tillinghast?

[quote author=Jeff_Mingay
I don't see why Stanley Thompson wouldn't be inducted someday for his contributions to the game... particularly in Canada. But there are a couple other architects ahead of him in that line, in my opinion; namely, A.W. Tillinghast and Willie Park Jnr. whose overall contributions to golf, by comparison, are much more prolific and impactful than Thompson's.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 11:52:08 AM »
Greg,

Not when you factor in Tillinghast's work as a prolific writer on all facets of golf in the early stages of the game's development in North America.

Moreover, Tillinghast's remarkable course architecture in the pre-1920s era set the pace and a stellar example for those who came after him, including Stanley Thompson.

jeffmingay.com

Tyler Kearns

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 11:54:46 AM »
Greg,

A.W. Tillinghast was more than just an architect and excellent amateur player as was Thompson. He also contributed to the game through his extensive writing which touched on all aspects of the game, and as editor of Golf Illustrated.

I certainly do hope Thompson gets into the World Golf Hall of Fame in time, as his legacy here in Canada is often overlooked when the great golf architects are discussed.

TK

Phil_the_Author

Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 12:09:20 PM »
Greg,

The question isn't whether or not Stanley Thompson deserves to be in the Hall of Fame; of course he should, as do a number of others.

The question should be WHY aren't golf course architects as a group appreciated enough for the impact that there work has on the game?

Frankly speaking, even the everyday player talks of having played a "Ross" course or a "Tillinghast" course or a "Flynn" or "Mackenzie"...

We measure the greatness of players, not on how far they hit a ball or how accurately they can hit an iron in relation to a flag in the ground at a certain distance but rather on how they respond to the challenges presented to them by what the great architects put on the ground.

Take a look at the state of golf course architecture before 1900 and you will find courses laid out mostly comprise of small platforms to begin a hole's play from to a green surface off in the distance with basically a short-cropped grass field in-between.

The great players looked and realized how much more the game of goldf could be and so THEY began to design golf courses because they recognized that CHALLENGE is what makes golf pleasurable and accomplishment rewarding.

Golf course architecture is not a paint-by-numbers piece of paper where placing the right color in the correct box makes a picture but rather it's a canvas where the ability to transfer a vision that only the artist may at first see within his mind as he walks an overgrown plot of land and thus transforms it into a memorable place where a game is transformed into a passion.

Without great architects and architecture there would be no Bobby Jones, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods, Tom Paul, Wayne Morrison, Ran Morrisset and so many others...

So again, ask the question "WHY aren't these greats of the game recognized?" Ask the Hall of Fame, write them and demand answers and let them know that these designers are not just architects of courses, but are the architects of the game itself. Ask the golf writers why they don't write articles about who should or shouldn't be in the hall of fame as their brothers in baseball do?

Why should there be such an outcry over Pete Rose both in the media and among the day-to-day baseball fans not being in his hall yet there be NONE men such as Flynn and Tillinghast and Thompson and Colt and Raynor and so many others?

The irony of this should pierce the hearts of every lover of the game; this game where it's history matters the most of any.

Let the architects in!

This is the only game where it is the field of play that defines greatness and individual accomplishment as much or more than the feats of the player.

Let the architects in!

How many players have defined their individual accomplishments because they won the Open at the Old Course rather than Carnoustie or the US Open at Pebble Beach rather than Pinehurst?

It is these fields of play where beauty is mixed with challenge and combined with strategy to create accomplishment that has awakened the passion in the heart of the average person to pursue their individual excellence out on them with friends, family or alone while simply competing with the thoughts in their minds.

Let the architects in!

Time to get off my soap box...

Greg McMullin

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 01:25:03 PM »
Philip, I like your thinking on this topic. I've begun to gather information re getting Stanley Thompson's name put forward for the WGHOF.  In addition, it's discussions like these that can help to get this topic on some influential radar screens and build awareness/action. Thanks!

=============================
[quote author=Philip Young
.........................
So again, ask the question "WHY aren't these greats of the game recognized?" Ask the Hall of Fame, write them and demand answers and let them know that these designers are not just architects of courses, but are the architects of the game itself. Ask the golf writers why they don't write articles about who should or shouldn't be in the hall of fame as their brothers in baseball do?


Tyler Kearns

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 02:03:21 PM »
Greg,

I took a look at your website, and noticed the listing of golf courses designed by Stanley Thompson. You should speak with Ian Andrew (Ian Andrew Golf Design), or search the archives of GCA to find a more definitive list that was compiled by the Canadian contingent here on GCA as well as others. The list attempts to record Thompson's activities at these clubs in regards to their architecture using newspaper articles, club histories and archives etc.

TK

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2007, 02:19:49 PM »
Phil Young makes a good point. There's no doubt more course architects - including Harry Colt, Willie Park Jnr. and Pete Dye - should be inducted to the World Golf Hall of Fame.

It's quite simple. Without their contributions golf wouldn't be the greatest game. It is, thanks at least in part but large measure, to the architecture of Colt, Park, Dye and so many others who (hopefully) await induction, including Stanley Thompson.

Thankfully one of the great injustices - C.B. Macdonald's absence in the Hall - was corrected earlier this year. Without C.B. golf in America could have taken a much different, less spirited and faithful path.

Matter of fact, we could use ol' Charlie on the USGA Executive today!
jeffmingay.com

Pete_Pittock

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2007, 02:55:54 PM »
Quote from: Greg McMullin
link=board=1;threadid=32420;start=0#msg639199 date=1197386000
Jeff,
Jeff, I too have been thinking about the impact that Stanley Thompson had on the sport of golf. What about this logic  ---- Thompson looks to have created about 50 original designs primarily in Canada. Tillinghast looks to have about 85 original designs attributed to him. Given that Canada is and has been aprox. 1/10th the size with 1/10th the number of golf courses compared to the US, would it be possible to argue that in fact Thompson had a larger per capita impact on the game than did Tillinghast?
 
Greg,
Canada is larger than the United States. Get over your inferiority complex ;). Granted, most of Canada is not suitable for profitable golf course development.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 02:56:27 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 04:35:15 AM »
As some of you know I and a small but growing group of ‘friends’ have recently formed a group who’s goal is the raising of funds that will be used to create a life size bronze statue of Stanley Thompson. Once completed, the statue will be donated to the Highlands Links Golf Course in Cape Breton, N.S. and prominently displayed on the grounds of the course, serving as a tribute to Stanley and his work.
While gathering information and background for the project I started to ask myself if Stanley could ever be recognized by the World Golf Hall of Fame for his contribution to the game. Hummmmmmm …… I checked the WG site and found that of the current 126 Hall of Fame members 3 were architects:

-Donald Ross - 1977
-Robert Trent Jones Sr. - 1987
-Alister MacKenzie – 2005
(*Charles Blair MacDonald was inducted in 2007 for his contribution as a Player, USGA Founder and Architect)

I’d like to gather some feedback from the GCA members and see if I’m in need of a reality check or not? ;)


Keep up the mission, I don't think being "recognized" by the World Golf Hall of Fame should diminish our appreciation of Stanley Thompson and his works.  Although I also love Highland Links (before or now) I can think of several better places to put his statue.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Greg McMullin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 07:42:38 AM »
Gary, we're very focused on getting the job done as far as a statue at Highlands Links is concerned and started to think about the WGHOF as a result of our efforts. Question? when you say "I can think of several better places to put his statue" are you referring to another golf course or some location outside a course?

======================
[quote author=Gary Slatter

Keep up the mission, I don't think being "recognized" by the World Golf Hall of Fame should diminish our appreciation of Stanley Thompson and his works.  Although I also love Highland Links (before or now)

Greg McMullin

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 12:41:49 PM »
Tyler, Robert Thompson provided me with a list of Stanley Thompson courses that is now on the site. He, Ian A. and a group of GCA regulars put it together earlier this year. Thanks for the suggestion.

Greg

[quote author=Tyler Kearns
Greg,

I took a look at your website, and noticed the listing of golf courses designed by Stanley Thompson. You should speak with Ian Andrew (Ian Andrew Golf Design), or search the archives of GCA to find a more definitive list that was compiled by the Canadian contingent here on GCA as well as others. The list attempts to record Thompson's activities at these clubs in regards to their architecture using newspaper articles, club histories and archives etc.

TK
Quote

Gary Slatter

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 04:32:26 PM »
Gary, we're very focused on getting the job done as far as a statue at Highlands Links is concerned and started to think about the WGHOF as a result of our efforts. Question? when you say "I can think of several better places to put his statue" are you referring to another golf course or some location outside a course?

======================
[quote author=Gary Slatter

Keep up the mission, I don't think being "recognized" by the World Golf Hall of Fame should diminish our appreciation of Stanley Thompson and his works.  Although I also love Highland Links (before or now)


On second thought the Highland Links might be a good spot for a statue, my initial concern was based on the fact that I don't think they've treated his design well on Cape Breton. But then again, that course is still numero uno in spite of "improvements'.  Initially I thought Banff or Jasper might be more deserving (and better funded).  Robert or Jeff might know which course is most intact.  Good luck!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Chris Parker

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2007, 05:23:33 PM »
 Although I also love Highland Links (before or now) I can think of several better places to put his statue.

I think Highlands Links is as good as any place to put the initial Stanley Thompson statue.  Why stop there though?

Donald Ross has at least two statues that I can think of, at Pinehurst and at Grove Park Inn.  Anyone aware of any others?

I think it would be great to see Thompson statues at each of his "big five" courses:  Highlands Links, Banff, Jasper, St. George's and Capilano.  Maybe there could even be one at the Cutten Club, where Stan was once proprietor and resident.  Perhaps each could be different, reflecting his appearance when he designed each course.

Speaking of which, Greg, I know it's early in the process, but have you been thinking of what the statue might look like?

As for the choice of Highlands Links as the site for the statue, you have to realize that the four founding members of the "Friends of Stanley Thompson" have a bit of a bias.  They are all Cape Breton boys.  They are proud of their course.  And rightly so.
"Undulation is the soul of golf." - H.N. Wethered

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2007, 05:41:02 PM »
Gary (and Greg),

I actually think Highlands Links is the right place for the statue.

Whereas Capilano and St. George's are private clubs frequented by few, and Jasper and Banff are owned by wealthy hotel chains, accessible only via hefty green fees, Highlands Links, arguably Thompson's best course, is owned by the federal government... in other words, the peoples of Canada.

Travel and expense aside, it's the most accessible of Thompson's very best courses.

Indeed, some restorative-based work is in order. But, this fact aside, I can't think of a better place to put the statue Greg and his friends are proposing. Perhaps this kind of recognition by private citizens will force Parks Canada (and the federal government) to examine their approach to the maintenance and preservation of this national treasure.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 05:43:44 PM by Jeff_Mingay »
jeffmingay.com

Greg McMullin

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2007, 05:51:36 PM »
Chris, maybe we can get a discount if we order a half dozen! LOL!!!!

Jeff, very good points! Onward ..................
PS: IMO - by making this happen we will help to ensure the course gets the attention it deserves for years to come.

Chris Parker

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 10:36:32 PM »
When I was doing a google search on Donald Ross statues for my post above I came across the Restoration Guidelines put forth by the Donald Ross Society.  The Ross Society suggests that in order to cultivate membership support for a proposed restoration, clubs should,
Quote
"Commission an artist to paint a portrait or sculpt a bronze statue to commemorate Ross."

Just food for thought, but is this something that the Stanley Thompson Society should promote, or is it better left to small grassroots organisations at each club and/or course, such as the "Friends of Stanley Thompson"?
"Undulation is the soul of golf." - H.N. Wethered

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2007, 07:53:59 AM »
Chris,

If I recall correctly, the Stanley Thompson Society has commissioned a painting of Thompson. I think this portrait is for sale through the STS, which obviously, is interested in selling to clubs with Thompson-designed courses.
jeffmingay.com

Ian Andrew

Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2007, 08:21:12 AM »
Gary (and Greg),

Perhaps this kind of recognition by private citizens will force Parks Canada (and the federal government) to examine their approach to the maintenance and preservation of this national treasure.

Jeff,

That has already been done, they have a full study detailing where the work by Cooke was inaccurate and also detailing where that long ago effort went wront. The report details tree removal and old views using all the old photos of the course. It'd done - the stumbling point is the money to do the work.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2007, 08:36:37 AM »
Hmmm... that's GREAT news, Ian.

And, I suspect you may be involved? If so, GREAT too.

As has been stated by several of us over and over, Highlands Links is one of the IMPORTANT courses of the world.

Lack of funds to do the work is interesting? The federal government is in surplus, yet again. Dedicate some of it to restoration of Highlands Links, through Parks Canada!

Simple  ;)
jeffmingay.com

Tom Roewer

Re:Stanley Thompson - World Golf Hall of Fame?
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2007, 09:53:27 AM »
I think we also have to look at Stanley Thompson past his great designs.  He was an accomplished player, at the local amateur level.  He encompassed many areas of GCA work, with Sutton Seeds, Lewis and Thompson machinery, ongoing consulting involving the upkeep and organization of continuing course maintenance, placing landscape undergraduates @ courses for summer internships.  We must also look at the extensive "tree" of GCA ers who worked and learned under and with Thompson - R.T. Jones, Robbie Robinson, Allan Bland, Howard Watson, Norman Woods, Geoffrey Cornish, Bob Moote, as well as being a charter member ofASGCA. A very holistic approach to the business i think!