Golf Digests Best New 2007 is out

[Joel_Stewart]

Best new private, Sebonack.  Congratulations Tom Doak and his co-designer.

Full list at www.golfdigest.com

1. SEBONACK G.C. • Southampton, N.Y. • Yards 7,481 • Par 72 • Designers: Jack Nicklaus and Tom Doak • Initiation Fee: $650,000-PLUS • sebonack.com
2. SNAKE RIVER SPORTING C. • Jackson Hole, Wyo. • Yards 7,533 • Par 72 • Tom Weiskopf • Fee: $150,000 • snakeriversportingclub.com
3. MOUNTAINTOP GOLF & LAKE C. • Cashiers, N.C. • Yards 7,127 • Par 70 • Tom Fazio • Fee: $100,000 • mountaintopgolfclub.com  
4. PRONGHORN (TOM FAZIO CSE.) • Bend, Ore. • Yards 7,447 • Par 72 • Tom Fazio • Fee: $100,000 • pronghornclub.com
5. BAYONNE G.C. • Bayonne, N.J. • Yards 7,120 • Par 71 • Eric Bergstol • Fee: $200,000 • bayonnegolfclub.com
6. COLORADO G.C. • Parker, Colo. • Yards 7,604 • Par 72 • Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw • Fee: $95,000 • coloradogolfclub.com
7. LIBERTY NATIONAL G.C. • Jersey City, N.J. • Yards 7,458 • Par 72 • Bob Cupp and Tom Kite • Fee: undisclosed • libertynationalgc.com  
8. THE C. AT OLDE STONE • Alvaton, Ky. • Yards 7,372 • Par 72 • Arthur Hills and Drew Rogers • Fee: $60,000 corporate; $25,000 individual • olde-stone.com
9. THE MADISON C. • La Quinta, Calif. • Yards 7,426 • Par 72 • Tom Fazio • Fee: undisclosed • madisonclubca.com
10. BOOT RANCH • Fredericksburg, Tex. • Yards 7,135 • Par 71 • Hal Sutton • Fee: $100,000 • bootranch.com

[Nick Church]

Played Olde Stone several times... definitely the best around these parts.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Sebonack book (well worth the investment for a winter's read).

[David_Tepper]

Average initiation fee for the 7 courses listed (excluding $650m at Sebonack and the 2 clubs with no fee shown) is $110,000.

Is this a great country or what?  

[Jim_Kennedy]

So, we have a tad over 1.4 mil to join the 8 who disclose their initiations.

Art Hills and Drew Rogers must feel lke pikers.

What's that saying, 50 is the new 40? Looks like 100k is the new 10k.  

[Dan Kelly]

A matter of even less importance than this list:

How did Nicklaus get first billing at Sebonack?

And another matter of little importance (to me, because I'll never join a private golf club):

Are these initiation fees stock investments, or are they money out the door?

[Cabell Ackerly]

Has Nicklaus Design ever won anything on their own? It seems as if all their accolades are on collaboration projects.

[Bob_Huntley]

And another matter of little importance (to me, because I'll never join a private golf club):

Are these initiation fees stock investments, or are they money out the door?

Dan,

I would imagine that you own one share of the Club's stock. Upon sale you would probably receive anything from 50% to 70% of your initiation fee returned to you.

Bob

[Steve Lapper]

A matter of even less importance than this list:

How did Nicklaus get first billing at Sebonack?

And another matter of little importance (to me, because I'll never join a private golf club):

Are these initiation fees stock investments, or are they money out the door?

Dan:

  Bob's previous answer might well be the structure for some, but several on that list use the "posted bond" membership. This is best described as the the member posting a membership bond (initiation fee level) and having it either partly or fully refundable during the first 30 yrs. After that the entire amount is usually made refundable to the member. The reasoning behind this allows the club to recognize the income over an amortized period (usually 30yrs), thus lowering the club's (founder) tax liability. Hope that helps.

Nicklaus probably demanded it.

He did get, and deserve, sole credit for the design work at Mayacama a few years back

[J_ Crisham]

So much for a recession! What strikes me as absurd is that other than Sebonack how many of these courses will ever crack the top 100. In most areas a top club could be joined for a lot less than 9 of the 10 listed.

[Garland Bayley]

Anyone with playing experience care to comment on Pronghorn-Fazio beating Bayonne?

[Matt_Ward]

Just a quick word in the $75+ category -- The Ledges in St. George, UT is not a better overall layout than either We-Ko-Pa (Saguaro) or Devils Tower which finished lower.

Be curious to hear from people who have played Old Corkscrew which Nicklaus did in Florida.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Is anyone else having the GD site turn off your browser?  I know of one other person having this problem.  I hope its because of interest in the article making the number of hits overwhelm the site.......and not it giving us all some kind of virus.

[Kyle Henderson]

So much for a recession!

Just because the rich are getting richer does not mean the "common man" is faring well.

[Dan Kelly]

Is anyone else having the GD site turn off your browser?  I know of one other person having this problem.  I hope its because of interest in the article making the number of hits overwhelm the site.......and not it giving us all some kind of virus.

I was doing fine till I tried to look at the Best Public Under $75.

Never underestimate the power of Golf Digest. After all, in Ron Whitten's words: "We made minimalism mainstream, we reached the frontiers of Nebraska, New Mexico and North Dakota before the competition, and if we didn't exactly establish Tom Fazio's reputation, we certainly helped him upgrade his airplane."

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dan,

When I read that, I figured a few here would take issues with Ron's, ah, take on that......

[Jim Franklin]

More interesting, is Reynold's Plantation's Engh course. Was it elgible for this list or is it for next year? Remember, this is the one that Jim Engh has proportedly guaranteed a Best New Private.

If it was elgible, then I think the Golf Digest guys got it right, congratulations. But most, congratulations to Gil Hanse for TPC of Boston and Tom Doak for Best New Private.

Tommy -

They did not list The Creek Club for best new private. I do not want to speculate why (stiff competition?), but I just got through playing it. I will start a new thread so not to highjack this one.

Jim

[Joel_Stewart]

Anyone with playing experience care to comment on Pronghorn-Fazio beating Bayonne?

There is a huge faction of panelists that like Fazio and his type of architecture.  I have not played either so I can't comment on the merits of either course but I would guess that the manufactured look at Bayonne also played a role.  I have talked with a few panelists that did play Pronghorn and both said they liked the Nicklaus course better than the Fazio so I'm not sure if they downgraded the Fazio course in that its not even the best course on the property?

[PThomas]

Anyone with playing experience care to comment on Pronghorn-Fazio beating Bayonne?

There is a huge faction of panelists that like Fazio and his type of architecture.  I have not played either so I can't comment on the merits of either course but I would guess that the manufactured look at Bayonne also played a role.  I have talked with a few panelists that did play Pronghorn and both said they liked the Nicklaus course better than the Fazio so I'm not sure if they downgraded the Fazio course in that its not even the best course on the property?

fwiw, i thought the Fazio was better than Jack's at Pronghorn....certianly one of the best Fazio, if not the best, of his that i have played

[Joel_Stewart]

Good stuff Paul.  One of his (Fazio) better is high praise.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

There should be a new category:

Best Private under $50,000.00

[cary lichtenstein]

There should be a new category:

Best Private under $50,000.00

And another category, best privates $350,000 an above

[Andy Troeger]

I thought both We-Ko-Pa Saguaro and Colorado Golf Club would end up higher than they did. That might speak to the strength of this year's crop of courses. I didn't get to any of the courses rated ahead of either one of them so I have no real basis for comparison. I'm planning on seeing The Conservatory at Hammock Beach Sunday and then hopefully Snake River next year so I'll be interested to see if I agree at that point.

[Mike Mosely]

I wanna see rock creek cattle company!

[Michael Dugger]

Does anybody here really agree with anything GD writes, though?

[Kyle Harris]

Sebonack's initiation fee rivals most courses' green budgets.