[Jeff_Lewis]

Is anybody familiar with a course where the original architect built a course, is still around, somebody else made changes and then the original architect was brought in to un-do those changes?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Well quite obviously Pelican Hill doesn't qualify, but who would have thought it would have been restored/rejuvenated on so soon?

My God, what a beautiful site for golf. Wish someone would have been able to build something worthy of that site.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tommy,

I think the trend is towards rebuilding quicker and quicker. Bunkers and turf don't last forever, and with people wanting those perfect, it may be that courses are touched every 8-10 years now, vs. 15-20 in the recent past.

so, I don't know the answer to Jeff's question, and can't think of any examples of that, but changing courses will only accelerate.

[Brad Tufts]

Renaissance in Haverhill, MA was redesigned before it was open.  It's a Silva course now, I'm not sure if he was the architect of record from the beginning or not, but the course took a while to open because of all the rebuild work. (not to mention the club politic and financial issues)

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Senor Brauer,
It is to my understanding that they had a lot of drainage issues--probably stuff that Fazio wasn't 100% responsible for--that rushed that restoration/rebuild.

I'm told that many of the greens have been rebuilt with chipping area/drainage swales. How much, I don't know, but from the two people I know who have played it several times say that other then the minor stuff around the greens, the courses are essdentially the same. Although they have been avoiding Ocean-South like a new strain of the Black Plauge. (they dislike that course very much)(they play PH every weekend, but with the oncoming Recession, I'm sure that luxuory is about to end!)(They are both in finance and investments with WaMu.)

[Adam Clayman]

Jeff, The only course that I know that fits your description of events is, The Dunes Golfer's Club, formerly The Dunes at Seville, in Brooksville Florida.

Art Hills built a good course on a sandy site, only to have the membership direct changes. Now, Mr. Hills is re-doing the course. What's odd is the re-opening date keeps getting pushed back and is still closed today.

Added*
 Ivanhoe CC outside Chicago might also qualify. But their pedigree is so screwed up, I can't keep it straight, who did what to whom. Originally a Dick Nugent, re-done, then re-re-done. Finally being put back to the original. I think(?)

[Matt_Cohn]

It's a bit different than the question, but Bob Cupp redesigned the University of Oklahoma golf course in 1997, but the course closed again this summer and fall to resurface the greens, add tees, and redo all the bunkers. Cupp's redesign made all the bunkers grass-faced; the new work will restore the sand-faced look that the old Perry Maxwell layout had before Cupp camae along.

A side note is that this work is being done mostly in anticipation of the 2009 Public Links.

Still, a course closing for an entire season within 10 years of opening is pretty unusual.

[Joel_Stewart]

Wade Hampton was tweaked by Fazio and all the bunkers and greens reworked 10 to 20 years after it opened?

The youngest course to be completely rebuilt has to be Mirabel in Arizona which wasn't even open when the owner tossed out Greg Norman to have Fazio redo it.

[Tom Yost]

Wade Hampton was tweaked by Fazio and all the bunkers and greens reworked 10 to 20 years after it opened?

The youngest course to be completely rebuilt has to be Mirabel in Arizona which wasn't even open when the owner tossed out Greg Norman to have Fazio redo it.

The question as I understand it, is not about rebuilding/remodeling a young course, but rather restoring the course.  This would imply that a course was changed at sometime, then the changes were later reverted to the original.

Tom

[jeffwarne]

It's never happened.
No course has ever been returned to its' original state.

[Tom_Doak]

Technically, it's not the youngest, but ...

In 1963 The Camargo Club asked Pete Dye about looking at changing their course.  He told them they were crazy, so they hired Bob Von Hagge to do the work.

In 1984 Camargo called Pete back and told him he was right to begin with and they'd like to restore it.  He told them he was not going to deal with a bunch of crazy people who had destroyed such a fine course, but that he did have a young guy working for him who knew a lot about Raynor's work and he would be glad to send me.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Mirabel came to mind for me too.

Angus Glen North in Canada was designed by Doug Carrick and Jay Moorish and overhauled by Davis Love within 4(?) years of opening.

[ChipRoyce]

Renaissance in Haverhill, MA was redesigned before it was open.  It's a Silva course now, I'm not sure if he was the architect of record from the beginning or not, but the course took a while to open because of all the rebuild work. (not to mention the club politic and financial issues)

Brad;
Could you please elaborate on what went on? I knew some early members who were talking up the project in 2001-2002 but moved away to Texas during development.

[Joel_Stewart]

Maybe Jeff had some insight in that GolfDigest just gave Gil Hanse best new remodel for 2007 for a 5 year old course at TPC Boston.

Ron Whittens article is below.

How old must a course be to qualify for Best New Remodel? Based on the selection of this year's Best New Private Remodel, TPC Boston in Norton, Mass., the answer is, "Not very old." A course need not even date from the 20th Century to be considered for Best New Remodel if its alterations involve sufficient strategic as well as cosmetic changes.

TPC Boston opened just five years ago. As the site of a PGA Tour event (the Deutsche Bank Championship) since 2003, it sported a solid routing and boldly contoured greens by Erik Larsen of Arnold Palmer Design Co. (After grumbling from a number of pros, some greens were toned down before the 2005 event.) Still, the rap against this TPC was that it looked more like a Florida course than a Massachusetts one, which might be expected when you give designers a parcel of Commonwealth laden with wetlands. The PGA Tour ultimately agreed, but to remedy that, it bypassed Palmer and hired architect Gil Hanse, an old school adherent who had done the impressive nearby Boston Golf Club. The goal of Hanse, assisted by associate Jim Wagner and PGA Tour consultant Brad Faxon, was to make this toddler look and play more like an 80-year-old New Englander.

[Tim Gavrich]

Savannah (GA) Quarters was originally Norman, but didn't they find it too hard and bring in Cupp to make it easier?

Doral--Great White?

Jeez, seems like Norman tends to err on the side of impossibility...

[Jeff_Lewis]

Lots of interesting responses, but it sounds like what I am hoping might happen has no precedent. Some very young courses have been plowed under or dramatically altered, but I don't think anybody has named a course which was built, got altered in its first 10-15 years of existence, and then got put back to its original state. Truly restored..."oops, we really shouldn't have changed this, should we".

[john_stiles]

Savannah (GA) Quarters was originally Norman, but didn't they find it too hard and bring in Cupp to make it easier?

Think Norman came in and revised the course as it sits today.
It's a Norman renovation or a Norman course.  Whatever.

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

High Pointe and Apache Stronghold will be candidates someday.  However, they weren't really altered after 10-15 years, just neglected.

If a course is really altered early on, it isn't going to be restored until there is a change of ownership.  Nobody is going to admit error in that manner.

[Michael Dugger]

Didn't they go back and rework Doonbeg early in the game?

Ocean Trails as well.

TPC of Avenel was altered recently.

[Chris Moore]

Pinehurst No. 7 opened in 1986 and went under the knife in 2002.

[Alex_Wyatt]

Wow, it is amazing how often Greg Norman keeps coming up in this thread.

[Michael Dugger]

lest we also add Dismal River and TPC Sawgrass to this list???

Didn't Rustic Canyon survive a flood or a fire or something too?

Does that count?

Muirhead returned to soften the edges, so to speak, of Stone Harbor, correct gentlemen?

[Michael Dugger]

I just realized the question in the title of this thread does not really match the question posed within the body of the thread.

My nomination addressed the question posed in the title....

Sorry.  Ignore me please......

[Michael Dugger]

In lieu of understanding the question correctly, I propose the following courses OUGHT to do so.

Return Ojai, Riviera & Bel Air to their original G.C. Thomas state.

Take the Fazio out of Oak Hill and Inverness.

Demolish a hotel and bring back Lido!!!

I once read Sharp Park was a fabulous course.....

[Adam Clayman]

Jeff, It does sound like Ivanhoe CC did the ol "oops".

The Art Hills course I mentioned wasn't an oops as much as it was the Mr. Hills was upset they had changed it.

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