Golf in Seattle/Washington state

[igrowgrass]

Cos,

Newcastle doesn't even SMELL good.
Its an old sewage site, which would have been a better use for the place.

Gravity makes it a hard place for a sewage plant.

[Sean Leary]

When I played at Newcastle I was led to believe green fees were higher to compensate for 15 minute tee intervals. Same income, less waiting for the group in front, less wear and terror.

Peter,

The 15 minute tee times are there because there isn't big demand to play there.  What a clubhouse though.

I think China Creek might qualify as a Doak zero. Coal Creek is better but still not good. All corporate golf facility.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I-90 Bridge is buried under Newcastle

[Michael Dugger]

Do you Seattle fellas think Portland public golf bests your region's best public???

Just curious

We offer up:

Pumpkin Ridge Ghost Creek
Reserve North
Reserve South
Heron Lakes x 2
Redtail
Stone Creek
Chehalem Glenn
OGA
Camas Meadows
Langdon Farms
Eastmoreland
Tri-Mountain
Forest Hills
Rose City

There's 16.

Give me the greater Seattle top public 16

Chambers Bay
WA Nat'l
Timber Point
Gold Mountain
uh....uh....I'm starting to falter.......help me please....

top 15 Seattle publics, c'mon....Jordan!  Where are you?

[Jordan Wall]

Do you Seattle fellas think Portland public golf bests your region's best public???

Just curious

We offer up:

Pumpkin Ridge Ghost Creek
Reserve North
Reserve South
Heron Lakes x 2
Redtail
Stone Creek
Chehalem Glenn
OGA
Camas Meadows
Langdon Farms
Eastmoreland
Tri-Mountain
Forest Hills
Rose City

There's 16.

Give me the greater Seattle top public 16

Chambers Bay
WA Nat'l
Timber Point
Gold Mountain
uh....uh....I'm starting to falter.......help me please....

top 15 Seattle publics, c'mon....Jordan!  Where are you?

Michael,

We win.  Especially with Chambers
And what the Hell is Timber Point?
 

Chambers Bay
WA National
The Home Course
Gold Mountain Olympic
Gold Mountain Cascade
Trophy Lake
Mccormick Woods
The Classic
Kayak Point
Suncadia
Druids Glen
Newcastle Coal (I'm only adding these two because of the views)
Newcastle China
Echo Falls

Thats 14.
Because you only gave 14.
Ha!
 


p.s. how was Bandon?
I know you took pictures...

[Eric Olsen]

How about Shuksan?  Or is that too far to be considered in the Seattle area?  Always a fun track to play.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Thats 14.
Because you only gave 14.
Ha!
 


p.s. how was Bandon?
I know you took pictures...

Jordan,

Count again.

[Sean Leary]

Do you Seattle fellas think Portland public golf bests your region's best public???

Just curious

We offer up:

Pumpkin Ridge Ghost Creek
Reserve North
Reserve South
Heron Lakes x 2
Redtail
Stone Creek
Chehalem Glenn
OGA
Camas Meadows
Langdon Farms
Eastmoreland
Tri-Mountain
Forest Hills
Rose City

There's 16.

Give me the greater Seattle top public 16

Chambers Bay
WA Nat'l
Timber Point
Gold Mountain
uh....uh....I'm starting to falter.......help me please....

top 15 Seattle publics, c'mon....Jordan!  Where are you?

Michael,

The Seattle courses Jordan named are almost all at least 45 min from Seattle.  My first instinct would have been Portland by a mile, but comparing lists, I think its pretty close. Portland privates are better...

[Garland Bayley]

Somebody tell Jordan, Michael didn't ask for Tacoma courses, he asked for Seattle courses.

[Michael Dugger]

I will go ahead and give you guys a large swath of terrain, Tacoma is fine.

After all, OGA is in Woodburn & Chehalem is in Newberg

Questions, though.  

1. Is Suncadia public?

2. And how, after completing blasting it, can you put Newcastle on your list, Jordan???  There are plenty more questionable courses around here to add to the list if you are including Newcastle because you are running out of courses.

3. Timber Point?  I meant Harbour Pointe

[Garland Bayley]

I will go ahead and give you guys a large swath of terrain, Tacoma is fine.

After all, OGA is in Woodburn & Chehalem is in Newberg

Isn't that more like giving them Federal Way and Redmond?

[Richard Choi]

Obviously, the inclusion of Newcastle, Echo Falls, Kayak Point, and The Classic strongly indicates that Jordan is just kidding around.

But then again adding Reserve North to the Portland list is also a joke (seriously, I quit playing after that ridiculous 13th hole).

I frequently go down to Portland to play and as a group, they are certainly superior (and more affordable). But the top end of Chambers Bay and Gold Mountain (Olympic) courses are better than the top duo of Pumpkin Ridge Ghost and Reserve South.

[Steve_Lovett]

Maybe it's just me - but I don't think Kayak Point, or The Classic are bad golf courses.  

Richard - What do you find objectionable about them?

[Garland Bayley]

...
But then again adding Reserve North to the Portland list is also a joke (seriously, I quit playing after that ridiculous 13th hole).
...

gotta disagree. the 13th is great fun.

[Richard Choi]

Maybe it's just me - but I don't think Kayak Point, or The Classic are bad golf courses.  

Richard - What do you find objectionable about them?

Simple - the utter lack of Risk/Reward. There is a lot of risk and little reward. Both courses have trees that are very close to the fairway with no bailout areas, which leaves you with very little options.

For example, both courses feature many dogleg holes with bend at 200 yards from the tee which leaves you 150 to 200 (usually uphill) shot to the green. There is no risk/reward choice for me to hit a driver or lay up. I am FORCED to lay up. There is usually only one way to play the hole. The course that I enjoy the most (and coincidentally rated higher) usually makes me think on the tee on how I should attack the hole based on conditions and how I am playing.

When you take that thinking away from me where I only really have one option of playing the hole, a great deal of enjoyment is taken away.

Kayak Point adds on top of that some of the silliest elevation changes that add very little to the game other than sweat. I stopped playing there in the nineties and have not gone back.

[Michael Dugger]

The 13th is kinda confusing, I played to the 14th green first time around!  Didn't even see that little thing hiding behind the humps.

But Reserve North has some good golf on it.

Just not 18 holes worth.

[Richard Choi]

I think the 13th would make a very nice par 3 (without ANY change) from the 14th tee. It certainly looks like a real hole from the 14th tee.

Our group was searching for the 13th green for about 5 minutes.

And don't get me started on archipelago of unplayable (very very well fed) tall grass islands that line every hole. I have never lost so many balls where I thought I hit a decent shot.

[Jordan Wall]

Michael,

Newcastle has two bad golf courses, but I pretty much thought of everything I could to come up with ones you would have heard of.  I would take the Nile any day over either of the Newcastle courses, but I doubt many, if any, have heard of the course.


Richard,
The Classic is a great course.  I like Kayak too, though not as much.
And I disagree.  I find myself in between a lot of clubs off the tee at The Classic.  Most holes offer a variety of options.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Jordan,

       The Nile course? Puhleaze!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now your just smoking crack. Better to go play Lynnwood Muni or Ballinger Lake 9 hole course.

        I'm a big fan of The Classic, a tight course routed on a very small property, with some of the best greens on a public course. Also very affordable.  

[Steve_Lovett]

I'm with Jordan and Craig on The Classic.  It's a terrific parkland course, which is kind of a change from the mammoth fir-lined courses which are so prevalent - although there is some of that there too.  Terrific routing, lots of variety.  And, yes - a great value.

I understand your point on Kayak Point, Richard - but I don't totally agree.  There are probably many great holes which aren't risk-reward oriented - but Kayak has a lot of variety in topography and setting (and the par-5's are risk/reward holes).  My knock on it is that pretty much each of the par-3's and par-5's are quite short, and that the 18th hole is super-awkward.  And yes, it is tight.

Jordan - the folks at the Admissions Office in Pullman would have second thoughts if they read your Nile reference...!  Please, take it back while you can..

[Jordan Wall]

Steve, Craig,

I grew up on the Nile.  I am growing up on the Nile.
Every single day I am out at that course.

It may not be the best course in the world, but it is far better than both Lynnwood and Ballinger, and others in the area.

Steve,

I dont see the fives at Kayak being overly short.  #15 is 600 yards and #2 is 540.  I've only hit number two in two once, and never the fifteenth.  Ironically, I like the eighteenth.  Yes, it is most definitely awkward, and way uphill, but it is a fitting finish to the course, imo, because it just sums up the course.  Severe.

And I'll get those pictures to you this weekend.

[Sean Leary]

Sean your quite a guy.
I was expecting something worse than that.
phew

As it turns out, I did awesome on my ACT, top 90%, and also did very well on my SAT.
This past Saturday I received my acceptance letter to WSU, the earliest possible date to receive it.
So, it was definitely worth wearing the jeans and taking the ACT.
 

Jordan,

I didn't know you actually had to apply to WSU. I thought they just took reservations....

PS.  The Nile really sucks. Sorry.

[Jordan Wall]

Sean your quite a guy.
I was expecting something worse than that.
phew

As it turns out, I did awesome on my ACT, top 90%, and also did very well on my SAT.
This past Saturday I received my acceptance letter to WSU, the earliest possible date to receive it.
So, it was definitely worth wearing the jeans and taking the ACT.
 

Jordan,

I didn't know you actually had to apply to WSU. I thought they just took reservations....

PS.  The Nile really sucks. Sorry.

You've only played it once.
SHUT UP!
 

[Richard Choi]

For those of you who think The Classic (or Kayak Point) is a "fine" course, I have a question for you.

Would you still say that The Classic is a fine course if you replace the trees with water hazards? Or worse yet, replace them with OB?

We are not talking about playable grounds beneath the trees like you have in Pinehurst or Augusta. The grounds underneath the trees are covered in scrub brushes which makes them impossible to find the balls, let alone play out of them. Most of the times, if you hit the ball in the woods there, it is automatic re-tee.

So, what you really have is a course that is lined with hazards/OB left and right just off the fairways. I know most people just play them as lateral hazards and the clubhouse encourages that for faster play (which begs the question why they don't mark them as hazards in the first place), but you still have a course where the vast majority of the players are breaking rules and encouraged to do so.

If you are against "Rees Jones-style" Florida courses with water hazards and sand traps lining both side of the fairways, like many of the people here, I cannot see any justification for labeling courses like The Classic as something that is even playable (the exact same reason why I detest Port Ludlow).

Compare that to architecturally superior courses like Olympic at Gold Moutain. It is also a hilly course lined with tall fir trees. But the trees are set further back from the fairways and you have at least one side of the fairway that you can play from - even though you may have to contend with some trees in your way. It is up to me on how much risk I am willing to take to get a better attacking angle to the green. To me, that is what makes a course a great course which is anthithesis to what courses like The Classic are.

[Steve_Lovett]

Richard:

I haven't found The Classic to be the way you've described - at least not a year ago when I last played there.  It's a tighter piece of property, and although there are many trees throughout the site it is not a "jungle".  The area around the 13th and 14th holes is heavily wooded - but overall I disagree with your characterization that the trees are essentially a lateral hazard alongside each hole.  I've had recovery shots from the woods - yes sometimes just punching out - but I don't recall it being impossibly overgrown as you described.

About 20 years ago I would agree it was this way at Kayak Point.  It's been thinned out some over the past decade or more - but still is dense forest in many places.

The first two nines at Port Ludlow are good - the third is ridiculous.  I agree on that.

I'd stand by my statement that both The Classic and Kayak are fine courses.  Great? No.  Neither is better than Gold Mountain - but both deserve mention in the top dozen or so public-access courses in the greater Seattle area...