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David Stamm

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Then and now photo's
« on: November 29, 2007, 06:42:51 PM »
I thought this might be fun for some. Post some of your favorite then and now photo's. The "now" ones need to be your own and they must be from close to the same vantage point of the "then" photos. Here's a couple of mine....


The 18th at RSFGC (the now is actually Jon Spauldings, so right off the bat I'm breaking my own rule. I'm using his because mine didn't turn out) The now photo shows the hole doglegging around the left tree line. The old hole went through the trees and up to the practice range and finished by the old clubhouse (NLE).
Then...



and now.....



The 16th at RSFGC. Then....





and now. A little closer to the green.



The 1st at Riviera...




and now..




The 6th at Riviera...





and now....





The 18th at Riviera...





...and now




the 18th at Pasatiempo....





and now...






...more after you guys post some of yours....



 
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 06:44:50 PM »
Great pics.

Only 18 Pasatiempo now isn't how it really is now.

 ;)
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David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 06:46:20 PM »
Yeah, I know. Some of us have not had the privilege yet.... ;)
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 06:48:00 PM »
Yes, but anyone has access to the Pasa website.

Here's a correct NOW pic.



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David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 06:50:58 PM »
...but it has to be taken yourself. ;D


(or at least by someone you were playing with).
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill_McBride

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 07:36:44 PM »
"RSFGC" = Rancho Santa Fe?  Never played there but it look(ed) pretty cool..........Behr?
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David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 07:40:39 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on November 29, 2007, 07:36:44 PM
"RSFGC" = Rancho Santa Fe?  Never played there but it look(ed) pretty cool..........Behr?


It is Rancho Santa Fe. And it is Behr (or was depending on who you talk to  ;))
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mark_Fine

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 07:42:44 PM »
Why is it that golfers like that super bright white sand.  I guess everyone wants the Augusta look  ???  Is it just me or does that look out of place on an old classic golf course like Pasa?
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Peter Pallotta

Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 08:39:33 PM »
It's not just you, Mark.

David - thanks for the pictures. They make me dislike framing more than ever. If you want frame something, frame the vista not the golf hole.  

Peter  
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Jay Cox

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 08:42:24 PM »
As anecdotal evidence in the "do courses tend to evolve for the better or for the worse" debate, David's pictures are really interesting.

My take, just based on these pictures:
18th RSFGC:  MUCH rather play the old one
16th RSFGC:  I guess I'd take the old one, but it's closer (and hard to tell)
1st Riviera:  I'll take the old one by a good bit, but I imagine some will disagree
6th Riviera:  It's amazing to me how similar they look, especially since (I think) some things have changed and then changed back (someone who knows better correct me if I'm wrong about that).  I guess I'd take the old one.
18th Riviera:  I'll take the new one.  Again, I imagine others will disagee.
18th Pasatiempo:  I'd rank them:  1) old; 2) newest; 3) sort of new

This is a good idea, David
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Andy Troeger

Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2007, 09:31:39 PM »
Quote from: David Stamm on November 29, 2007, 06:50:58 PM
...but it has to be taken yourself. ;D


(or at least by someone you were playing with).


From my round at Pasatiempo in the company of Mr. Tom Huckaby posting on his behalf  :P  ;D
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David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 09:45:46 PM »
I guess we can accept that one, Andy. ;)


A few more...

The 10th at Pasa.




And now...




The 4th at Riviera




and now, from slightly left of the tee...




The 9th at Riviera...




and now...




The 10 at Riviera...




and now....




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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Kalen Braley

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 09:50:34 PM »
This is wicked cool stuff David.

Did you find all these pics off that research site that was posted a few days ago?

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Dan Moore

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2007, 09:55:08 PM »
From the Midwesterners; from the Hoosier state. Is that a cop surrounding the punchbowl green??  



« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 09:56:47 PM by Dan Moore »
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Dan Kelly

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 09:58:21 PM »
How and why did that then Riviera 18 green turn into that now Riviera 18 green?
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David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2007, 10:10:52 PM »
Kalen, no, they are from my personal library. I'm glad you like them.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2007, 10:12:33 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly on November 29, 2007, 09:58:21 PM
How and why did that then Riviera 18 green turn into that now Riviera 18 green?


I agree, Dan, I like the old one better as well.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2007, 10:24:35 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Fine on November 29, 2007, 07:42:44 PM
Why is it that golfers like that super bright white sand.  I guess everyone wants the Augusta look  ???  Is it just me or does that look out of place on an old classic golf course like Pasa?


Mark, I would agree, but I think the sand will brown after sitting in the sun for a while. TD I think mentioned this on another thread. It's hard to tell because they are b&w, but it appears that they were in the beginning then as well. Here's another shot of 18 at Pasa. It looked like it (they) were pretty white...




« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 10:25:17 PM by David Stamm »
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jon Spaulding

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2007, 12:18:42 AM »
DS; think I mentioned this but the sand indigenous to the area around Pasa is very white by California standards. So in the spirit of using a locally occuring material one could say that they're on the mark. Now for "my home course" where the natural material is 60% clay........that white crap makes about as much sense as your patented palm tree surrounds ;).

Back to Pasa; they've been mining in Felton on the order of 70 years (although a good portion of the mining has closed in the last 10). There's also a sand plant north of SC on highway 1 near Wilder that has beautiful material. They buy GC sand from a plant that we helped build in Salinas for Chemical Lime in 2004. They have one of the few limestone deposits in the state that's not used for cement. Most intriguing is that they actually dirty the material up at the request of the courses (PB/CPC). Have not asked what pasa's spec is but it looks almost identical in color to the Monterey neighbors.
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Mark_Fine

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2007, 06:48:50 AM »
Bunker photo from The Preserve (Fazio's course south of there).  This sand is not blinding white!  Maybe he trucked in from Ohio  ;D

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wsmorrison

Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 07:22:29 AM »
It is hard to tell from the old photo but it seems that 2 very strategic bunkers on the famous 10th hole, which appear in the modern version are not visible in the old photograph.  The diagonal bunker along the right green side and the bunker short and left of the green are not apparent.  Assuming the angle of the photo does not hide the two bunkers, were they original and taken out or later additions?   If those bunkers weren't originally designed, who put them in and what would the hole play like if they weren't there?

This is a fascinating study.  Thanks to everyone that is contributing.  I find the 18th green at Riviera to be a pale imitation of the original.  It seems like the greens need to be expanded back to their original dimensions for the course to really achieve its full potential.  

I'll try to post some interesting then and nows...a bit later.

Then:



Now:



« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 07:25:19 AM by Wayne Morrison »
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Bill_McBride

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 08:15:04 AM »
Quote from: David Stamm on November 29, 2007, 10:24:35 PM
Quote from: Mark_Fine on November 29, 2007, 07:42:44 PM
Why is it that golfers like that super bright white sand.  I guess everyone wants the Augusta look  ???  Is it just me or does that look out of place on an old classic golf course like Pasa?


Mark, I would agree, but I think the sand will brown after sitting in the sun for a while. TD I think mentioned this on another thread. It's hard to tell because they are b&w, but it appears that they were in the beginning then as well. Here's another shot of 18 at Pasa. It looked like it (they) were pretty white...




What gorgeous hole is this?  The barranca in front looks something like #10 at Pasatiempo, but not much else......

There was a lot of whining about the bright white sand in the bunkers after a restoration project at Cypress Point a couple of years ago.  Has the sand lost some of that luster?  Haven't heard anything about it for a while, so maybe so.
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David Stamm

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 09:30:56 AM »
Bill,

   It's an even earlier photo of 18 at Pasa. Marion Hollins home hasn't even been built yet on the ridge above and behind the green.



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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mark Dorman

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 12:03:22 PM »
'New' front right bunker at Pasa #18 = too boxy.

The other bunkers have lots of curves, while this one has straight edges and 90* corners.  

Maybe it's just the camera angle.

Cool pics though, thanks for sharing.
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Dan Kelly

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Re:Then and now photo's
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 12:31:29 PM »
I'll ask again, in a different way:

Is there ANYONE who thinks the Now 18 green at Riviera is as attractive (in any way) as the Then 18 green at Riviera?

How, when, and why did Then 18 become Now 18?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 12:45:02 PM by Dan Kelly »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016
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