[Tom Huckaby]

Devotees and readers of Tom Doak know his categorization of "dumb blonde" golf courses:  they are beautiful but lack anything meaningful or all that interesting architecturally.  There are plenty of them, and most have been discussed in here.

Well... last week I played a course that takes this to a new level.  It's beautiful in a lot of ways - or at least allows for quite a few nice views - but it does so many things wrong, breaks so many rules, is so flautingly stupid in so many ways.... but yet it is very fun to play... that one feels guilty enjoying it.  

THus it hit me - this course is like going to a strip club with a bunch of friends - you know deep down you are not supposed to enjoy it, but still you do... and feel guilty for doing so.

Thus I present, the "Strip Club" golf course:

The Crossings at Carlsbad - Carlsbad, CA.

http://www.thecrossingsatcarlsbad.com/layout10.asp?id=182&page=3854

Good lord are there things about this course that would drive many in this forum batty:  

a) it's the most unwalkable course I have ever seen.  I am not kidding.  It makes former champs Kapalua Plantation and The Ranch at Silver Creek look like kid's stuff.  In fact walking is PROHIBITED - I gather they want neither heart attacks nor 7 hour rounds.

b) the routing is crammed, and forced, and in fact on the 12th hole you have to drive across an arroyo to the green, then traverse alongside the length of the app. 400 yard par 4 all the way back to the tee, only to then play the hole back to where you started.  On top of that, there are two tiny par threes that seem obviously forced into the routing in order to achieve 18 holes.  From what I gather all of this, and the many other routing issues I could list, were forced upon the designer due to environmental and other restrictions... making it pretty incredible they achieved a golf course there at all.

c) there is ESA EVERYWHERE!

BUT... strangely I found it very fun to play.  As at a strip club, one just has to shut off his rational mind and enjoy himself.  Because you see, the greens are crazily contoured... which I found great fun.  The ESAs are everywhere, but the fairways are HUGELY wide... my group lost very few golf balls.  There are quite a few fun strategic choices one faces.  Then on top of everything, maybe it was just my luck playing on a coldish fall day, but it was VERY VERY firm and fast!  Balls were rolling all over the place, which of course is also great fun.

So.... in no way can I call this course great... but it sure was fun.  And I feel dirty even saying that.

Thus a new category, the Strip Club course.  Are there any others?

TH

[Dan Kelly]

Aren't these known, nowadays, as "Gentlemen's Club Golf Courses"?

Or is that just one more Midwestern peculiarity?

[Tom Huckaby]

Dan: yes, yes they are, even here in hedonistic California.

I don't exactly frequent them though, so I went with the vernacular with which I was more familiar.

I'm trying to think of another example... nothing is coming to me.  But this "Crossings at Carlsbad" can be described no other way... at least not by me.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Huck,

Glad you had fun with the Stripper...  

As for unwalkable courses, there is one here in Northern Utah that I guarantee would give this a run for its money.  Fortunately, it doesn't have any goofy routing like the 12th.

So Tom, based on your description, does this course teeter on being a Doak 0 then???

[Joe Bausch]

Tom, I was curious about the routing you described.  Gosh, you are so right!  Here is a pic of the routing.  And what exactly are 'comfort stations'?!  They sound like a place for a lap dance.  

[Bryan Drennon]

"Gentlemen's Club Golf Courses", that was classic.

Now there a joke in there somewhere about shaved banks, lip-outs and 2 midgets and a priest yelling "get in the hole". Give me a few minutes I'll come up with it.

[Brad Tufts]

I actually drove by this course about two weeks ago, it looked pretty wild even from Palomar Airport road (from which you can't see more than a hole or two).

I'm trying to think of a course that I've played that was a candidate for this thread.  I thought of a few, but the only one I really liked was Spanish Bay.  It gets accused of the ESA and target golf, but I found it very enjoyable.

[Tom Huckaby]

I do like the idea of what "comfort stations" serve as in this new context for this golf course...  

And it is a crazy course for sure.  But I really did enjoy it.

And no, I wouldn't call it a Doak zero, because it doesn't poison one's mind to play it... in fact, I really think one does just need to go in with a sense of humor, and if he does, it can be great fun.  They did however spend obscene amounts of money to build the course, so it could be a Doak 0 for the humorless.

And Brad, good call re Spanish Bay - that would seem to fit this category also.  But it's so damn expensive, perhaps it fits into the category of high-priced call girl?  

[Rick Shefchik]

Huck,

I hope you tucked a few fivers into her, um...well, I'm sure you found a suitable way to show your appreciation.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I hope you tucked a few fivers into her, um...well, I'm sure you found a suitable way to show your appreciation.

We did quite generously tip the two beverage cart girls - all on the up and up, of course.

TH

[Dale_McCallon]

Does your wife know that you enjoy these places?

[Tom Huckaby]

Dale:

The golf courses?  Obviously....

Oh you mean Gentlemen's Clubs... well, I have only been to such three times in my life - and my wife was bemused to hear about each time.  Of course make it more than three (over the course of 20 years) and the bemusement might turn into disgust.

TH

[Cabell Ackerly]

P.B. Dye's Moorland Course at the Legends in Myrtle Beach, SC might fall into this category.

[Michael Hayes]

Tom, I have been struggling to describe a course that I played last week, you really hit the nail on the head with "Strip Club".  I played Kidd's new Stonebrae up in Hayward last week.  I really enjoyed the course but could not let the ESA's and 'cart baller' nature of the course overcome the unbelievable greens.  I actually played it twice to try and get a better feel, but felt even dirtier the second time around.  

Michael Hayes

[Greg Krueger]

How about any of "The Donald" courses complete with
fake waterfalls and everything.

[Kalen Braley]

Huck,

I thought about starting a new thread, labeled "guilty pleasures" but I guess this one is basically it.

Guilty pleasures are:

"something that you enjoy that you think you shouldn't enjoy, either for personal reasons or because of the possibility of other's reactions."

I'm not sure if these fit or not, and While I'm not as well traveled as others on this forum, my nomination would be the two Engh courses in southern colorado.  I know they are repetitive, and have drop in fairways on almost every fairway, but they are just a lot of fun to play and are visually outstanding.

What are your guilty pleasures?  Courses that you know the treehouse would "disapprove of" yet you just love to play it...

[Andy Doyle]

And here I thought this thread was about the recent news in Atlanta:

http://tinyurl.com/2ya789

GCA connection?  Mike Young's Wolf Creek.  Is that another design element - obsuring public view?

Andy

[Kirk Gill]

Two necessary criteria - $12 beers and lots of artificial mounding.

There is a couple of ways that the analogy doesn't work for me. At your typical gentleman's club, I've heard that you aren't allowed to touch, and there are large, muscular humans that will toss you out on your head if you break the rules. Any golf courses like that?

Still, it's a nice way of thinking of a course like the one you mentioned, Tom. It's a course description that I'll have to keep in mind.

[Tom Huckaby]

I think "guilty pleasures" is indeed a much more correct way to categorize courses like this... but "strip club" is more potentially offensive, and thus to me more fun - kinda like "dumb blonde."

 

And Michael, RIGHT ON re Stonebrae!  I played it once, after doing the NCGA course rating.  There was a thread about it back then (a few months ago) I think.  It is cartball to the max, although the strong young pros maintain they walk it all the time.  Well, more power to them.  And yep, there are ESA's everywhere.  But the greens are freakin' incredible, and the views from up there are spectacular.  So one really shouldn't praise the course too much... but it's kinda too fun NOT to... thus it too is a strip club, or guilty pleasure.  Great call.

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

I'd put Coeur d'Alene in the "dumb blond" category, but not necessarily all the way over to "strip club." It doesn't have that much in the way of architectural challenge or interest, but it sure is pretty, and everybody ought to take a boat to a green at least once in their golfing life. It's fun. So's the trip to and from the hotel to the course in those vintage wood-paneled speedboats.

Even describing it, I feel like I probably should have been charged a two-drink minimum, but what the hell...

[Tom Huckaby]

Rick - that makes sense to me.  I think to make it to "strip club" status a course has to have something morally wrong architecturally... or at least "offensive"... And from what I can see nothing at Coeur d'Alene would reach that status.

One still would feel weird praising it too much in here though.  So it has to be pretty close.  Two drinks sounds right to me.

TH

[Andy Troeger]

Kalen,
I wouldn't label the Engh courses guilty pleasures personally. Both have a lot going for them and just because they are in spectacular settings don't make them any less appealing. Are they repetitive? Sure, but so are many other courses in other locations. I think the fairway shapes at Lakota were significantly affected by the canyons, in many cases it actually followed the natural contours!

Others would include them in this category though I'm sure. I think you could find more guilt elsewhere!

[Kalen Braley]

Andy,

I didn't really haven't played anything that really fit the category, but that would be the closest.  The theme was more along the lines of even though they get bashed for those things, the courses are still a ton of fun to play and I would do so if given the chance.  

Tom and Rick,

I would agree about CDA, its the only course I've played where the fairways are about as smooth and low cut as your average muni.  And the greens, they were the fastest greens I've ever putted on, hands down.  As for beauty, its a knockout, but probably closer to the way hot, high maintenace girl that you could have a fun weekend with, but would never want to date her..  

[Jason Topp]

How about Shadow Creek?

[Tom Huckaby]

How about Shadow Creek?

Yeah, I think that works.  Many here deride it, but I sure found it fun to play.  And I always do feel some guilt praising it given the obscene amount of money spent on building the place.

TH

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