[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

The Biarritz Hole at The Course at Yale -- No. 9 -- has been anomaly since the work of Seth Raynor came back into style within the last 10 years. It is was thought to be one of the few Raynor-designed Biarritz where the front portion of the green complex was meant to be mowed at green height since it has been maintained that way for decades. It now appears, though, that the front portion of the green was, in fact, originally meant to be maintained at approach height.

   I recently unearthed a Hartford Courant article from Aug. 16, 1925 on the construction of the Yale course that reads: “The ninth hole is over the northwestern end of the Griest pond and has its original on the Biarritz course in France.
   “The green proper is behind a deep groove in the approach which is of about the same area as the green. The approach is bunkered heavily on the right and left and the fairway is the lake. This hole is one of the most interesting of the course and is deceptive because of the full water play, although the hole is not a long one.”

   
Anthony

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tony

You are really on a roll here with your in depth research on golf in the CT area.  Those aerials are a treasure and this article seems to reveal new information about Raynor and the Course at Yale.

Unlike some of the bullshit made up and overly dramatic prose some write here on GCA, you have made some contributions that truly increase our understanding of the art of GCA.

[wsmorrison]

Nice going, Tony.  It never made sense to me that all the other templates were built one way and that lone design was different.  Thank you for proving a consistent presentation of that design.  Now, should all of the approaches go back to fairway height as intended or is it better now?  If it is better now, would it have been better decades ago when the courses were designed/built given the grass types and mowing heights back then?

They are templates.  Systematic concept copies.  Isn't it a bit ironic that they have evolved and now deviate from their intended presentation?

My vote is to return the approaches that can be transitioned without too much expense or trouble back to fairway height if possible and see how they play.  I assume it wouldn't be much trouble to mow them back down again over time if it doesn't work so well.  Though some of the grasses may not work well at fairway height.  I don't think greens that are A1 or A4 can tolerate longer heights.

What would change in the way various classes of golfers play the hole with approaches at fairway height?  What did mowing the approaches at green height do in terms of playability?  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Wayne

I'm not sure that I agree.  Given better turf conditions I think the ability to maintain the front section (at Yale) as green will only increase flexibility in the shot values on the hole.  However, I do believe that the research that Tony did to discover this fact should be used as a resson to put the pin locations MOSTLY in the back section.  It is located in the front FAR too often I believe for pace of play reasons more then anything else. Now that we know it was not intended to play as such I think Scott and crew have a reason to put back pins in play far more frequently.

[Mike Sweeney]

Tony,

It seemed strange to me that the author said about the 9th "the hole is not a long one.” In 1925, 190 -225 yards seems long to me, so I guessed that he was not a golfer or did not see the course since the 5th is indeed a short hole.

Thus I did some digging on the Yale HISTORY site. See the hole by hole descriptions in the Yale Weekly from 1925:

http://research.yale.edu/wwkelly/Yale-golf/documents/Yale-Alumni-Weekly_1925-0828.pdf

It appears that the Hartford writer may have copied the language from this document or had a similar source.

However, even that document is before the course even opened (predicted by the unnamed author for October 1925 at the end of the piece), so could it be possible that it was a grow in issue that was corrected before the course was opened? Don't know but based on this, I am not 100% buying the concept that the front was NOT green.

[Bill Brightly]

I wonder what the guys from Fox Chapel have to say? Isn't their swale every bit as deep as Yale's and a "full" Biarritz with the front portion as putting surface?

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Mike:

Reading the entire story gives me the impression that the writer knew what he was talking about. I'm inclined to think he was right. Since the story does not have a byline it is unknown who wrote it, however, the Courant did a wonderful job covering the construction and in another piece even listed the construction superintendent. Coupled with the fact so few other Raynor Biarritz greens have two-tiered putting surfaces, I'm believe originally it was one tier. Hey, I could be wrong. I was the guy who said the yellow-cake uranium was the smoking gun for Iraq. Oops.


Anthony

[Jim Nugent]

If the front half of today's Raynor Biarritz greens were not meant to be part of the green, when and why did all or nearly all of them change, in the same way?  

It surprises me that few if any remain in their original state, if that's what it was, when the change is so big.  

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Jim:

Most Biarritz green remain with the front tier at approach height and the rear at green height. Courses such as Shoreacres, north of Chicago, were changed years later.

Anthony

[Gerry B]

i don't recall fox chapel's swale being as deep as yale's when I last played there

[Tim Gavrich]

I think that part  of the greatness of #9 at Yale is that the ability to put a pin either short of or beyond the trench is such that the hole can play very differently from day to day.  I see this fascinating discovery as evidence of how golf holes, golf courses, the field of golf course architecture, can always be improved.

It does make sense, looking back and knowing how much harder it would have been to stop a ball short of the trench back in the first half of the 20th century, it's small wonder that Raynor would've seen little point in maintaining the front part as pin-ready green.

A case of technology taking a hole "to the next level," architecture-wise, perhaps???

[wsmorrison]

Was the swale a feature incorporated because it allowed the ball a greater chance to come to rest on the back of the green complex where all the pins were located?  If so, I find such a design feature less interesting.  

At Yale I can see this especially important when it was first built because the carry required would have meant a lot of balls came in hot.  There are numerous examples where the ground before the Biarritz green complex allows the balls to land sooner and run onto the green complex, whether the approach was fairway (seems to be the architects' preference) or green height.  This seems to be a better use of the concept.

The first part of the green complex at approach height would slowed the ball down some, adding to the effectiveness of the design.  If the first part of the green complex were maintained at approach height, the Biarritz holes would have been less expensive to maintain.  Perhaps the green complex functions better today with the first portion of the complex at green height and that's why they were changed over.  Additional pin locations with a different distance demand?  If so, that was a departure from the original intent and what does that say about the original intent?

[Bill Brightly]

I think another important question is why did Raynor and Banks place bunkers on the outside of the approach areas? Wouldn't it be very unusual to bunker the outside of an approach?

[TEPaul]

Interesting research stuff Tony.

I think it's safe to say that it still is not certain if Raynor intended any biarritzes to have greenspace before the swale.

What I believe I do know is not a single one of them had greenspace before the swale with the single exception of Yale, and now even that seems to be questionable.

The "Biarritz" shot was one of those specialized shots that I was taught by the old Scottish pro at Piping Rock. He took about ten of us kids out there and showed us how to hit the "biarritz" shot. And then we went over to the Redan and he showed us how to hit the "Redan" shot.

Those were the only two specialized shots on that golf course.

By the way, the very first golf shot I ever hit in my life was to the biarritz green at The Creek Club. That was back around 1951 and at that time that biarritz had fairway before the swale. Today it has greenspace before the swale and the length of the green from front to back is 82 YARDS long---the same as the front to back greenspace today on the biarritz at Fox Chapel.

[TEPaul]

I sure haven't seen all of Macd/Raynor's biarritzes but of the ones I have seen a lot of them have been transitioned to greenspace before the swale. Those include The Creek, Westhampton, Mountain Lake and Fox Chapel.

Piping Rock's does not have greenspace before the swale and either does Fishers Island's. I doubt the latter ever could have greenspace before the swale because as Donnie Beck, the super, will tell you that area before the swale is just too steep.

The interesting thing about Mountain Lake's biarritz is not only did it not have greenspace in front, it didn't even have a swale until Brian Silva put one in within the last five years.

[Phil McDade]

From Ran's GCA review of Shoreacres:

"Sixth hole, 190 yards; A shorter than usual Biarritz hole that has both the front and back halves as green. The green itself is eighty-three yards long and features a two foot swale approximately in the middle. The Club has not always maintained the front half as putting surface. Interestingly enough, all the greens at Shoreacres have an original cinder base and when Tim Davis went to reclaim the front half, there was no cinder. Perhaps Raynor never intended the front half to be green but the hole is infinitely more interesting because it is."

Wayne:

Do you think a Biarritz has more interest with the front half maintained at green heighth if the approach is generally flat, vs. Yale, where the tee (from what I've seen in pictures) is elevated above the landing area? Shoreacres, for one, appears to have a teeing area at about the same level as the green, and I can definitely see the appeal of keeping both parts of the green at green heighth (pre- and post-swale) because tee shots (broadly speaking) wouldn't be coming in as "hot" as they might with an elevated tee.

[TEPaul]

"Interestingly enough, all the greens at Shoreacres have an original cinder base and when Tim Davis went to reclaim the front half, there was no cinder."

Phil:

Isn't that interesting. All the old Macdonald/Raynor(?) greens at Shinnecock also have a cinder base.

If one really wants to find out the answer to this original greenspace question on biarritzes a little good old fashioned "architectural archaeology" is probably in order. About a 3-5 foot core sample would probably do it.


Personally, I think biarritzes with front greenspace have a whole lot more interest than the ones that don't. I just think a green that has options across about an 8-10 club spectrum is so much more multi-strategic.

[George_Bahto]

Charles Banks graduated from Yale, went to Hotchkiss and from there was enlisted by Seth Raynor to join him in his trade.

The following is from an article written by Charles Banks in 1929 that was published in a Yale bulletin in which Banks described each hole in detail - I got this from the Yale archives a number of years ago and it also appears in my book in the Yale chapter.

Now he was there during constructions so he would know:

1929:

“This hole has its original on the Biarritz Course at the famous watering place in France of the same name.  
   
This is the second of the short holes and is planned for a single shot to the green with the driver.  There is a 163 yard water carry from the back tee.  The green proper is behind a deep trench in the approach.  The approach is about the same size as the green itself and is bunkered heavily both right and left with water jutting in on the right front.  The fairway is the lake.  The tees are elevated above the lake.  The green is heavily battered at the back and the right and the whole psychology of the hole is to let out to the limit. The distance, however, is not as great as it seems, due to the water, and a moderate stroke with care is safer than a slam.  Correct play for this green is to carry to the near edge of the groove or trench and come upon the green with a roll.  The disappearance and reappearance of the ball in the groove adds to the interest of the play.  The carry for this play is 180 yards from the back tee”.

Pretty clear.

Bill: the side bunkering seems to represented the cliff (on one side) on the original hole - the hole played from and 80' cliff across the Bay of Biscay to a 50' cliff beyond.

[Geoffrey Childs]

I see George just beat me to the reply.

I read that article before and assumed the author was Charles Banks from the quotes that George used in his book.

By short hole he is simply referring to the one shot par 3's. The wording does appear to me that the front section was not intended as green, however, I agree that it might have been tough to stop a driver shot on the front level in 1926 anyway.  Today its an interesting shot to the front section where you absolutely need enough club to carry the steep bank over the water yet still avoid the swale beyond that results in a probable 3 putt. For me, a shortish hitter, it's a 6 or 5 iron from the back tees depending on tee marker location and wind. Not overly demanding in today's game.  I stand by my request that pins be located in the back section MOST days. This takes away the water as a hazard but increases short game interest dramatically if you miss the green.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tom,

At Mountain Lake two of the four template par-3 greens were lost due to renovations. Brian Silva put in a Short Hole and a Biarritz. Prior to his work there, the Biarritz green site was a bland oval. The club had no photographic evidence of what was there originally, so he came up with his own design.

There are also the one-tier Biarritz greens at courses such as Dedham Country and Polo and Westhampton. George, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Westhampton extend the putting surface well out beyond its original size?

Anthony

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tony

Westhampton doesn't have a "real" biarritz.  It looks like a VERY large two tier green.  There is no swale to speak of.

[TEPaul]

"Correct play for this green is to carry to the near edge of the groove or trench and come upon the green with a roll.  The disappearance and reappearance of the ball in the groove adds to the interest of the play.  The carry for this play is 180 yards from the back tee”."


George:

That is precisely the description of the "biarritz" shot that was given and shown to us kids in the early 1950s by the old Scottish pro, Spence, at Piping Rock. The idea and the shot was to hit the ball pretty low, get it on the ground on the front fairway section, and to get the "weight" just right as the ball ran into the swale and disappeared for a second and then reappeared on the other side and scampered up and onto the green. Spence did it for us a bunch of times with something like a 4 wood as we all screamed YEAH! when the ball reappeared. It was a very cool specialty shot.

But the specialty shot that was toughest even amongst the good players was the apparently proper shot to hit to the reverse redan at The Links. That required a pretty low fade and that shot was just not easy to pull off. But when a golfer did that one right it was really cool to see it take the front slope and run down and away.

Man, it's just so interesting to think how some of those good players like my father and his crowd back in that day of the late '40s and early '50s would use shot making and imagination to play the ground back then.

But do you want to know what the real irony is? They did it and they were good at it but they were even more fascinated by how the evolving equipment and balls of that time were making the aerial game so much more doable than it once was.

I would call my father and that crowd "Transition" players because they could do both very well but when given the opportunity it was the aerial game they wanted to go to.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tom:

Interesting in your description of these shots because you are showing an obvious bias to the right-handed player. If the Reverse Redan at The Links was the toughest shot, the for left-handers doesn't that make a regular Redan the toughest shot? By the way, I'm right-handed.


And we all get it that you grew up playing Piping Rock and learned from a Scottish pro. Your making all of us who grew up playing Dogshit Golf and Go-Cart and who learned from their father, brother, friend, or friend of a friend feel bad. From now on just write, "when I played as a kid the pro taught us... ."

Anthony

[TEPaul]

Tony:

I can tell you that long time Westhampton super, Mike Rewinski could just never figure out if that biarritz ever had front greenspace but apparently he just decided to do it anyway.

And that 9th hole short at Mountain Lake is not a Raynor original. Banks did that hole and green later. The present 8th hole was a par four and then a par 3 to the present 8th green. I believe George found the tee on that original par 3 way out to the right.

[wsmorrison]

"
“This hole has its original on the Biarritz Course at the famous watering place in France of the same name.
   
This is the second of the short holes and is planned for a single shot to the green with the driver.  There is a 163 yard water carry from the back tee.  The green proper is behind a deep trench in the approach.  The approach is about the same size as the green itself and is bunkered heavily both right and left with water jutting in on the right front.  The fairway is the lake.  The tees are elevated above the lake.  The green is heavily battered at the back and the right and the whole psychology of the hole is to let out to the limit. The distance, however, is not as great as it seems, due to the water, and a moderate stroke with care is safer than a slam.  Correct play for this green is to carry to the near edge of the groove or trench and come upon the green with a roll.  The disappearance and reappearance of the ball in the groove adds to the interest of the play.  The carry for this play is 180 yards from the back tee”.

Pretty clear."

What is pretty clear?  I read that passage as stating clearly that the area before the "trench" was fairway approach and not green.  He talks about the "green proper" being behind the trench in the approach.  If that was the green proper, that's where the pins were located, not in the front of the trench.  He said the play was to land on the near edge of the groove and "come upon the green with a roll."  It would appear, despite previous statements to the contrary, that the hole was originally intended to be green behind the trench and this was not one of the few that always had green space before the swale.  

How do other people read this account?

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