3 Ross Classics - Franklin Hills v. Detroit GC v. Inverness

[Brian Cenci]

Anyone have any particular comments on Franklin Hills Country Club, Detroit Golf Club or Inverness Country Club?  I am getting the chance to play these three Ross courses on 3 consecutive days and wanted to know what others felt about them or are they all pretty much the same?

[PThomas]

have your putter working well the day you play FH Brian!

pls report back after you play them all

[David Whitmer]

I have played Inverness many times in the last 10 years, but I have not played the other two at all. Inverness is a neat, neat place, although I'm not sure how much of a Ross course it still is. I believe the Fazios had their hands on it prior to the 1979 U.S. Open, and I'm pretty sure Arthur Hills has done work there. I know holes 5 and 6 were not part of Ross's design. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject than me can set me straight.

At any rate, I have always loved teeing it up there. The place drips with history; make sure you check out the clubhouse and locker room.

[Cory Lewis]

I played two of these, Inverness and Franklin Hills, for the first time two weeks ago.  Franklin Hills feels more like a Ross both in the bunkering and in the greens.  That not's taking anything away from Inverness though, it is outstanding in it's own right.  The par 5's at Inverness were really good, the way they moved with the land was exceptional.  The Par 3's at Franklin Hills are one of the best set of Ross Par 3's I've played so far.  I believe Ron Prichard restored Franklin Hills, he did an outstanding job.  You should have a great experience playing these courses on consecutive days.

[mark chalfant]

Franklin  Hills is an exceptional  routing  over  an  elegant rolling landscape. The variety  of par threes and par fours  is remarkable. If possible ask your host at  DGC to play the South course, it is 5,900 or so but has better land and more   character  than the "main" (North) course.  Ive been to   61 Ross courses, and FHCC is IMO one of the master's most inspired creations

[Chuck Brown]

I have played Franklin Hills (I worked there in high school just to be able to play the course on Mondays) and I have played both DGC courses, North and South.  I walked Inverness in two US Opens; I stood next to Lon Hinkle and watched him hit driver AROUND the Hinkle Tree the morning after the USGA planted it.

Franklin Hills - A real, rare treat.  Tom Doak spoke highly of it in The Confidential Guide, and all of the massive improvements actually were completed AFTER Tom's praise for it.  My guess is that Tom would like it even more now, and would be an enthusiastic supporter of the faithful restoration work that was done there.  I do think that if Ross were here today, Franklin is the one he'd be most pleased to see.  His routing fits the land so well, and so little has needed changing.

DGC - That club has a ton of very good players, and they have placed so many demands on the North Course (the big course at DGC) that it is now slightly unrecognizable from what was originally there.  I have never been a big fan of the North Course; it is built on flat land and unlike, say, Garden City or the recently-featured Brookside in Columbus, it appears to be a course that is uncomfortable with its flatness.  The North Course always felt two-dimensional to me.

But the DGC South Course, a Par 68, is a beauty.  Built on the same flat land, but having escaped the attentions of the tournament committee, it has a different appearance to me.  Full of Ross's character in the green complexes.  I love the little South Course.

Inverness was always a shock to me in how small the greens appeared when you had to hit into them.  It always seemed to me a course that built tension in where you placed every shot.  That, I suppose, is a mark of a good course.  It is a beautiful layout that could probably stand just a bit of the  Oakmont tree-removal program.  I thought I was going to get a chance to play it for the first time last August after having walked it twice, but my host had to defer until next season.

All three clubs are really special places; what a fortunate invitation for you.

[Ari Techner]

I grew up playing Franklin Hills and the more great course I get to play the more I realize how great Franklin Hills is.  It has a spectacular set of greens (try to stay below the hole especially on #2 and #9) and a great variety of holes.  It has some tree lined holes but also has an open expansive feel to most of it.  As mentioned the Par 3s are especially great.
 
Some of my favorite holes are:
#2 with the cross bunkers and bunker in the middle of the fairway and a devilish back to front tilted green.  
#5 with its spectacular green built into the side of a hill.  Looks easy on the card but many a 5 and 6 are made here.  
#7 with its fairway carved out of the trees to another quick sloping green.
#9 one of the best par 3s anywhere.  Take a good look at this whole green when you play there and try to imagine all the different putts you could have depending on the pin and where your ball is.
#10 with its rolling fairway and undulated green and zero bunkers.
#13 one of my favorite holes anywhere.  300 yards to a tiny tiny green on the top of the hill fully exposed to the wind.  Hit the green and you have a short birdie putt.  Miss the green and be happy with a 5.  
#14 long downhill par 3 to one of my favorite greens on the course.  Club selection could vary as much as 4 clubs or more depending on the wind and pin.  If your above the hole to a front pin you will do well to keep the ball on the green.
#16 very long 240y par 3 to a small green that is very receptive to run up shots.  
#17 a hole much improved by Ron Pritchard.  230 carry over the water to the fairway or take the safe route around the trees on the left.  Another excellent green.  
#18 long uphill par 4.  the second shot is mostly blind, you can see the flag but not the green.  Hit it towards the flag and walk up the hill with the anticipation of seeing your ball close to the hole.  The last of just a spectacular set of Ross greens.  

Enjoy your time there.  It is a special place.  

[Will E]

These are VERY different courses although they all enjoy wonderful Donald Ross routings.

Franklin Hills- interesting course, improved greatly by Ron Prichard, somewhat land locked and short, always over watered, fun members course with some exceptional holes (2,9,13,18). Where I'd choose to spend the day if offered a choice of the three courses mentioned.

Oakland Hills- worth the price of admission just for the greens. Very 1D thanks to RJones bunkering and USGA conditioning. A little more fun than a root canal.

Detroit GC- I agree with most of what Mr. Brown has written. A much better club than course.

Missing from the conversation is Barton Hills in Ann Arbor where Ron Prichard is transforming a once "good" country club course into a course that many here will judge to be superior to the courses mentioned in this thread.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I agree with Shooter.

Franklin Hills is the best of the bunch in question. Though Inverness is, of course, very stong too. Detroit GC is enjoyable, but both courses there are a notch below the aforementioned two.  

As for Barton Hills, I also agree. I'm thinking when Prichard's done with Barton, it'll be talked about by architecture buffs in the same category as Franklin Hills.

[Chuck Brown]

Cupcake's comments about Franklin (over-watered, short, yet a very nice course in any event) are all true enough.

The comments about Barton Hills in Ann Arbor are also true.  It is hosting next year's USGA (what -- Womens Mid-Am?)  
ABC's Mike Tirico is a member there.  It is some very rolling terrain for southeast Michigan.  I'll be interested to see what they do with it.  Unlike mere 'restoration' as with Franklin, I'm not so sure but what Barton (a nice track to begin with) couldn't stand some 'revision'.  I did not know that Barton had retained Ron Prichard, but if it is anything like the result that they got at Franklin, it'll be very good indeed.

[Tom_Doak]

I did speak highly of Franklin Hills but I didn't rate it above Inverness, and I doubt that the work to the former has changed their relative positions.  Inverness is a terrific piece of property; Franklin Hills a very nice one but clearly a step down in terms of the terrain.

Personally I enjoy the South course at Detroit Golf Club more than the North.  Hopefully you'll have time to try it.

[Chuck Brown]

Tom's right about one thing; Inverness is a big-time golf course that could host another major championship any time anybody wanted to go back there.  Franklin simply isn't in that category, although it is a course that I as a recreational player might prefer every day.
As for the character of the terrain, I'm not sure what qualifies me to disagree with Tom, but other than perhaps the available acerage, I can hardly think of a more attractive bit of rolling terrain than Franklin.

[Brian Cenci]

Well...I played Detroit and Franklin yesterday and I was very impressed with Franklin.  Very solid course and it's probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite Ross I've played (played Holston Hills, Oakland Hills, Pinehurst No. 2, Pine Needles, Mid Pines, Southern Pines, Detroit GC), with my favorite being Holston Hills.  The topography at Franklin was very similar bunkering and green complexes.   My favorite hole was probably #11, #15 or #17.

-Brian

[Sean_A]

I would really like to see Franklin Hills one day.  Its one of those strange things that I haven't seen it yet.  I would agree with a few others here.  I think DGC's South course is better than the North though I am not a huge fan of either.  Same for Barton Hills, its a good course, but nothing too wonderful.  So much of the Ross stuff  is long gone so I would probably vote for a Pritchard restoration rather than more tape and glue stuff.  The course should be wonderful because the land is outstanding.  Its little known that Barton Hills is about the richest community in the state.  Its also a tornado great buffer for Ann Arbor!  

Ciao

[Brian Cenci]

Played Inverness today (45 deg's and rainy) and I was really impressed.  Probably my favorite Ross course (displacing Holston Hills, Oakland Hills, Franklin Hills and Pinehurst No. 2).  Really liked the way the holes flowed during the round and the use of the land makes for some interesting shots.  One drawback is there were no numbers on the tee boxes so I ended up playing four holes out of sequence.  Really liked the bunkering as well and the green sites on the holes.  Overall, a great classic course.

-Brian

[Chuck Brown]

Brian it has been a while since I was at Inverness and as I mentioned above, I missed my chance to play it back in August.
My recollection was that it could use a minor tree reduction program, a la Winged Foot, Oak Hill and Oakmont.  What was your impression on that?

[Brett Hochstein]

I've never played Inverness, unfortunately.  Had an offer, but not the time.

I've written plenty on Franklin before, considering I worked there through the restoration.  Great to hear some mention for #15.  The turn of its fairway is what I believe to be the most beautiful spot of the property, and it has great value as a golf hole alone despite its 440 yardage and par 5 label, which is totally irrelevant really.  The semi-blind, turning tee-shot gets players to do stupid things like "cut the corner" or "just bomb it out there."  The slope of the LZ and the bunkering make the second shot great, but the green makes the hole what it is.  I actually heard a member wish the green were moved back some 40 yards in the restoration to make it more of a true par 5.  I might have cried if that happened.  I've never seen more misreads than on this green, including by yours truly.  It's a special spot, and it sits wonderfully with its surrounds.  Glad you enjoyed the course.

Detroit North is all right, the land not as flat as everyone says with lots of little rolls in it.  It does feel too tight though, and I believe that to be a product of the tree planting, which seems to have been a major donor program given the plaques near most every tree.  The bunkers are flashed up and planar, so much so that a 3-wood can comfortably be played if desired.  I remember the 3rd, 5th, and 18th standing out for me.  Overall, the club is a pretty cool place with lots of typical Detroit Kahn-esque architecture around the site.  Wish I could try out the South
--it sounds and looked like a lot of fun.    

[Andrew Cunningham]

My favorite hole at Inverness CC - the risk reward - and very challenging 7th.

[Matt_Cohn]

Is it just me, or did there used to be a bunch of mounds in the left rough on this hole?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Brian,

Interesting comment about playing some holes out of sequence at Inverness. I suspect that mistake has something to do with Fazio's stretch of holes between 3 and 6.

I'm curious? Where'd you get out of sequence?

[Brian Cenci]

Brian,

Interesting comment about playing some holes out of sequence at Inverness. I suspect that mistake has something to do with Fazio's stretch of holes between 3 and 6.

I'm curious? Where'd you get out of sequence?

Jeff,
     We actually got out of sequence twice.  We jumped from #4 to #7..played #7 until we realized our mistake.  Then on the back we accidently jumped from #12 to #15...played thru to #17 then realized our mistake and went back and played #13 & #14.  There wer no tee markers, I assume because we played so late in the year but maybe they never mark the holes.

-Brian

[Jeff_Mingay]

Brian,

I see how that can happen coming off 4 green at Inverness. If my memory serves correctly, today's holes 4 and 7 were originally Ross' holes 4 and 5.

The Fazio holes 5 and 6 feel like they're on an adjacent property, don't they. You walk backward from 4 green to the Fazio 5 tee, then feel like you actually leave the Inverness property for two holes. It's strange.

Re jumping from 12 green to 15 tee.  I think 12 used to be Ross' no. 3. The Fazio changes also result in having to walk backward from 12 green to 13 tee, right? That wasn't the original sequence. I haven't been there for a few years now, but that's what I recall.

I like Inverness. It's a very good course, with a number of really good holes. But the awkwardness of the Fazio holes at 3, 5, 6 and 8 - in both appearance and sequence - is hard to ignore; and fix. In fact, I know Arthur Hills and associates have taken a crack at trying to fix some of the problems associated with the newer holes mentioned. I'd like to get back there some day to see how the more recent work turned out.  

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