Tallgrass, likely to be NLE

[Jason Blasberg]

As reported in the Long Island Business News,

The Town of Brookhaven has approved a planned development that will convert 320 acres into "residential units, commercial property and ball fields.  The land is currently occupied by a sod farm and golf course."

Does anyone know what will become of the golf, will it be entirely destroyed . . . what an absolute shame.

Get to Tallgrass ASAP and enjoy it while it lasts!!!      

[George Pazin]

Sometimes I think that public golf course owners are among the biggest philanthropists out there, when you consider how much more money there is to be made developing the land for housing, etc.

Sad news.

[jeffwarne]

George,
and then you add in the fact that most expect the golf to be priced "affordably" (no matter what the owner's costs are and where it's located) and you really have to respect their "philanthropy".

I guess another blow is struck for those who think it is cool to camp out all night to obtain a tee time at a govt. subsidized course.

[Mike Sweeney]

Sometimes I think that public golf course owners are among the biggest philanthropists out there, when you consider how much more money there is to be made developing the land for housing, etc.

Sad news.

http://www.libn.com/breakingNews.htm?articleID=8977

Hold on there George:

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The latest configuration of the plan called for 387 condos, 175,000 square feet of retail and office space, open space and 18 acres of athletic fields. The golf course would remain.

But the Brookhaven town board approved a slightly scaled-down Tallgrass plan that allows 352 housing units and 125,000 square feet of retail space, with the largest store no larger than 45,000 square feet. The developers’ attorney, Larry Feldman of Farrell Fritz in Uniondale, said that the town went into great detail in their approval, outlining more than $40 million in public benefits from the project, like preserving the golf course, building ball fields and parks, and from property tax revenue.

The Tallgrass plan still needs to be approved by the Pine Barrens Commission, which is scheduled to vote on the project next month.
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If it is a first meeting with the Pine Barrens Commission, there is a long way to go. I doubt the golf course goes away.

[Mike_Cirba]

That really, really sucks.

If nothing else, Jason, I'll never forget the day we played out there in 40mph winds as one of the most fun times I've ever had playing.

[Garland Bayley]

Build a golf course and a community springs up around it raising real estate values significantly. Then sell the golf course for more real estate development. Is that philanthropy or just plain good business sense?

It seems to me we need more Rustic Canyons, and fewer Tallgrasses.

[Tom Dunne]

Garland: You think Rustic Canyon's management is altruistic? The thing that's interesting about your statement, though, is that of all the courses in the greater NY area, none comes closer to the vibe of Rustic Canyon than Tallgrass. Same architect, sure, but it's more than that.

Tallgrass is a really good course, especially around the greens. It would be a crying shame if we lost it.

[Garland Bayley]

Don't know about altruistic, but as far as I know it is publicly owned and therefore not in need of taking a profit. I went to school in and eventually taught in the state with the highest number of golf holes per capita of all the states in the nation, SD. Clearly all those altruistic public courses have clouded my thinking.

[TEPaul]

I've forgotten---is Tallgrass by Gil Hanse?

[Garland Bayley]

I've forgotten---is Tallgrass by Gil Hanse?

Yes,

That is why I brought up Rustic.

[Jason Blasberg]

I just hope the community planners out there realize how important the golf course as built is to the community!

[TEPaul]

Do you think there's any possibility the town can convince its residents that it's actually better and more fun to live in sand bunkers on Tallgrass than in boring new apartments on the land?

I mean look at those Fuegians from Tierra Del Fuego. They were capable of sleeping outdoors when it was about 30 below zero and blowing like Holy Hell. And not only did they sleep outdoors in those conditions but they managed to do it bare-ass naked too. The very idea of it just seems so invigorating.

I think the town of Brookhaven should convince its resisdents that sleeping in Tallgrass' bunkers bare-ass naked like the Fuegian, even in the dead of Long Island winters, will toughen them up and make better people out of them.

And look at Gary Player. He slept in a bunker at TOC during his first British Open and look how well Gary turned out. It may've even made him one of the world's best bunker players.

And if the Brookhaveners would agree to live on the golf course and some of them wanted to make love with one another I'd recommend some of the nice putting greens. I tried that once down in Palm Beach and it worked great.

Hell, if they'll agree to do that I'll even volunteer to come up there and explain some of the old local Rules of Golf at St Andrews when golfers had to play around all kinds of people moseying around all over the course with their dogs and pets pissing and humping all over the course. There was even a provision in the old St Andrews Rules on how to take relief from laundry and wash.

This will work and Tallgrass will be saved.

Just leave it to me to come up with win/win solutions.

Hey, Gil, have you ever tried to use tempurepedic sand in any of your bunkers? You might even be able to patent it. That could be a win/win/win deal, maybe even a quadruple win deal.

[Jay Flemma]

When will we know the decision?

[Jason Blasberg]

That really, really sucks.

If nothing else, Jason, I'll never forget the day we played out there in 40mph winds as one of the most fun times I've ever had playing.

MC, an unforgetably fun day of golf and great company. . . I hope we can do it again next year . . .  

[Mike Sweeney]

When will we know the decision?

Jay,

The decision on the golf course has been made and the golf course STAYS.

It has always been my opinion that the developers were using the golf course as leverage as in "give us what we want across the street or else we plow under the golf course now and build houses".  

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18951318&BRD=1776&PAG=461&dept_id=6363&rfi=6

From the article,"Others who were for the PDD stated that they had to take into account the fact that Tallgrass developers Ornstein and Scott Leyton had an as-of-right to construct 283 single-family dwellings if the PDD did not get approved, which could have meant a $5 million tax ramification for the Shoreham-Wading River School District."

Thus the developers had the right to build houses on the golf course, and the kids in those houses that it would attracted would have cost $5.0 million per year to the town for schools and similar. This was the developers leverage to get a variance from the town for residential to a Planned Community, which allowed them condos/shopping/residential across the street.

It appears the only question left in front of the Pine Barrens Commission is how many condos/shopping/houses they get. This is an environmental group, so they are not going to add condos or take away a golf course/open space from an approved plan.

On a practical note, none of the development can encroach the golf course, there is simply no room. The development is across the street on the DeLalio sod farm.  

If new owners come into Tallgrass as a result of all of this, I currently have no knowledge of what their maintenance meld practices may be, so we can keep Tom Paul on the case, but just to be clear, Tallgrass Golf Course STAYS.  

[Adam_Messix]

This may be changing the subject a little bit, but haven't developers been paying attention to the slow housing market due to banks tightening credit.  The continued fast pace of development amazes me and I guess until a major developer gets burned it won't stop.

[Jason Blasberg]

When will we know the decision?

 Tallgrass Golf Course STAYS.  

Mike, I hope you've got the right scoop!

[David Stamm]

Any further news on the future of this course?

[Tom Dunne]

I dunno, but I was there last month and a more accurate name for it would be "Shortgrass"--they'd harvested the tall yellow stuff that, while pretty, was overly penal. If you didn't know any better you'd think that it's necessary as the course's primary defense (it's not a long course), but the greens offer plenty of challenge. It was an absolute blast to play. Hanse built some really fun holes at Tallgrass--not only would it be a shame to lose this course, people should check it out now while it's playing under such enjoyable conditions.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Tom-

  Agree with you 100%.  Played Saturday at about 12:45 as a single (on LI!!) and was amazed at how empty it was.  Wind mostly from the west.  Rough was a non-factor; on the positive side of the balance sheet, it was easy to find balls, both in the Tallgrass areas as well as in the primary rough. 
Heavy rains the day before evident off the fairway.  Greens receptive, and could see, if firm, how much more fun this course would be. 
Greens rather small for the typically windy Eastern LI.  Good bunkering, and good variety in holes.  Well worth the price (played in 3 hours); so enjoyable to play a good public course in the same amount of time one could play a private course. 

With the wait at BSP up to about 2:30, one could drive the hour out there, play, and get back to Mineola in the span of time it would take to play the Red or Black. 

[Mark Fedeli]

The actual end may finally be here: http://www.golfonlongisland.com/teebox/2016/03/tallgrass-golf-course-likely-to-close-in-april.html


And another Long Island public option bites the dust. A damn shame. This is one of my favorite public courses in the entire tri-state area. Great fun, good width, an easy walk, and a ton of variety. Plus, homages and template holes. Gil Hanse did an admirable job. If only more courses were like it, especially in this neck of the woods. 

[Brad Tufts]

Well that's miserable.


I had a great round there a couple years ago, it's just a great spot.


Obviously the town can squeeze more $ out of the solar farm than Tallgrass GC, but doing so "kills" any prior or future connection of the town's residents to that land.


It's a hard one looking in from the outside without knowing the particulars, but obviously the loss of any well-designed public golf course is tough for our little community.

[Mark Fedeli]

Well that's miserable.


I had a great round there a couple years ago, it's just a great spot.


Obviously the town can squeeze more $ out of the solar farm than Tallgrass GC, but doing so "kills" any prior or future connection of the town's residents to that land.


It's a hard one looking in from the outside without knowing the particulars, but obviously the loss of any well-designed public golf course is tough for our little community.

Brad, I'd definitely be curious to know more about the financial situation. Assuming it was a struggle, as I rarely had any problems getting good weekend tee times, it's always surprising to think a high-quality public course on Long Island wasn't packing them in. It was just far enough out, and just far enough off the LIE, to not get a consistent flow of NYC traffic. It either needed to be about 15-20 miles closer, or the island needed a few more traffic-free highways.


I also think it struggled to find an identity, acting too much like a crowded, run of the mill public course. For years, walking was not technically allowed before noon on weekends. They would sometimes allow it, but always with an aggrieved look — an experience that kept my group away on more than one occasion. It's only been the past couple years that they've opened up to walking at all times, which is a shame, as I can't think of many courses in the area more well-suited to walking as Tallgrass is.


They never seemed to actively court players who were looking for something minimalist, or even remotely in the vein of Bandon, Streamsong, etc, let alone mention the hole templates or inspirations. They rarely promoted the architecture or the architect, or the kind of golf experience they uniquely offered, which was a missed opportunity at least, as that was their advantage over every public not named Bethpage.

[Mark McKeever]

Crap!  Looks like I need to get back out to Long Island asap... Especially if they are modifying the course in some ways.

[Tom Dunne]

Crap!  Looks like I need to get back out to Long Island asap... Especially if they are modifying the course in some ways.

They're doing more than modifying it, they're putting a solar farm on top of it. I've been tracking this for a while--called Tallgrass on Sunday and got the word that it might be closed for good as early as April 30. A major loss for public golf on LI, but at least its fans have a month left for a farewell round. What makes it a little more poignant for me is that after years of overwatering, they really had it playing beautifully firm and fast last fall, with just a bit of fire to the greens. Too bad...