C/C Rankings

[Jonathan Cummings]

A few months ago I posted my personal rankings of the Doak courses I've seen.  I thought I'd do the same with the Crenshaw Coore courses.  Here's my list from best to least best.  How does this compare with your own C/C list?  JC  

Sand Hills GC
Old Sandwich
Bandon Trails
Friar's Head
Cuscowilla
Hidden Creek
Talking Stick - North
Chechessee Creek Club
East Hampton
Talking Stick - South
Barton Creek

[Andy Troeger]

I'll give it a go...but my list is only four courses long so not going to do anyone much good.

Colorado GC
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
Warren GC at Notre Dame
Talking Stick North

[John Kirk]

OK, I'll bite.  My list goes:

Sand Hills
Friar's Head
Bandon Trails
Colorado Golf Club
Hidden Creek

Hidden Creek is awfully nice for last place on a list.  I'm torn between switching the last two positions.

I rank Friar's Head and Sand Hills much closer than most here.  Also, I like Bandon Trails' environment better than Friar's Head, but think Friar's Head gets the nod for having a better set of 18 holes.

[John_Conley]

Sand Hills
Kapalua Plantation
Cuscowilla
Chechessee

JC, I thought you'd played everything in Hawaii.  

Also, I'm coming your way.  Did you get my PM last week?

[Daryl David]

Mine.

Sand Hills
Bandon Trails
Cuscowilla
Talking Stick North
Kapalua
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
Barton Creek

[Joel_Stewart]

Its splitting hairs of which is best.  Regardless C&C are developing a very nice portfolio of courses.  Given some of the new openings in the next few years and they are going to leave a great portfolio as a legacy.


John, I agree with your statement below.

I rank Friar's Head and Sand Hills much closer than most here.  Also, I like Bandon Trails' environment better than Friar's Head, but think Friar's Head gets the nod for having a better set of 18 holes.

[Jonathan Cummings]

I was also a little disappointed by Friar's.

Johnny Boy - quite right you are, I've played all the Kapaluas a number of times.

Check your IM.  We can try a little Fazio layout in Owings Mill :-)

Sand Hills GC
Old Sandwich
Bandon Trails
Friar's Head
Cuscowilla
Hidden Creek
Kapalua
Talking Stick - North
Chechessee Creek Club
East Hampton
Talking Stick - South
Barton Creek

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jonathon,
  I guess I'll be the one to ask-What disappointed you about Friar's Head? I'd be very interested to know. While I'm at it:

Friars Head
East Hampton
Checheessee Creek
Cuscowilla
The Warren Course
Hidden Creek

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Jonathan Cummings]

Tony - strong #2-PVGC opener with a great green.  Holes 2-6 good but nothing special.  Some distracting road noise on 3-6.  Hole 7 is a world class par 5 with good reward for aggressive play.  8-9 good holes.  Hole 10 is the best hole at Friar's and one of the very best par 3s in the world.  The outlandish green, penal surroundings, obscenely bold fronting hill all add to make this hole stern, fun and whimsical.  I loved it.  Another good series at 11-13 with fine green complexes (#13's fairway pot bunker is brillant).  The par 5 14th is world class up into a natural bowl with a green that has huge variation designed into it.  #16 and #17 are near world class.  #18 is a good finisher.

Nothing wrong with Friar's - it's clearly top 50 modern but not top 10.  Play Old Sandwich if you want to see 18 great to near-great CC holes.

How's Long Cove's conditioning?  It was very marginal when I was there during the tournament.

J

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jonathon,
  Check your PM. If you’re talking about the Verizon Heritage tournament, we didn’t overseed fairways this past year and had a mild winter and spring. Combine that with tremendous amounts of member play and poor, 25 year old fairway grass and you get what you saw in our fairways. Our greens were great and had many of the pros, including Jonathon Byrd, Fred Funk, Joe Ogilvie, Lee Janzen stated that they were better than over half the courses, including Harbour Town, that they had played up to that point for the year. We overseeded last week to avoid the fairway thinning, but it’s going to be awful next summer!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jonathon,
   I did forget to mention that you are for sure in the minority claiming that the conditions were marginal for tournament week...Nick Faldo and Ian Baker Finch didnt have a problem either....Sunday was another story.....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Mike_Cirba]

Boy,

I really wish I had played Old Sandwich when I had the opportunity because I'm really hearing mixed things.

Two fellows whose opinion I greatly respect both said it was about a "Doak Scale 6".

Of C&C courses I've played...

Sand Hills

Friars Head
Cuscowilla
Hidden Creek

Sheesh..I think I need to play more golf.

I would say that I really loved the pics of the Warren course.

If I have a criticism of C&C it's that there style seems to sometimes shout.   The Warren course seems to pleasantly whisper.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

I've said before that I was disapointed with Friars Head because they way people were talking about it I thought it would be the next coming.

I thought it was good, but for all everyone was saying about it I was a little let down.

There weren't a ton of holes that BLEW me away.

[Anthony_Nysse]

tI guess thats th beauty of this website is that we are all entitled to our opinion. I feel as though FH has some of the best hles on Long Island in #1, #2, #7, #9, #10, #14-#18 and even several of those being world class. The remaining holes are a stout compliment are are in no way marginal. In fact, throw out #8, #9 and #14 at Maidstone and ANY hole at FH is better...JMO
   I will never understand what is so special about Hidden Creek....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Brock Peyer]

Here's mine:

1. Cuscowilla

I guess that I should not have responded since that is the only one that I have played.  I am not as well travelled as most of you but it is my favorite course that I have played out of 180 or so courses.

That's my one cents worth.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Anthony-

17 one of the best holes on Long Island?

I notice you left out #6? I loved this hole.

15 is good. 18 is good. (IMO ofcourse)

There are alot of holes on Long Island (and in Westchester for that matter) that aren't even a figment of most on this web sites imagination that compare to holes at Friars Head.

Just check out the Robert Deruntz Glen Head thread.


I agree that Friars Head is a good golf course, no doubt. However I think it gets hyped up a bit. (IMO)

[Tom_Doak]

M. Shea:

Maybe the obsession has something to do with a longing for courses with the features of St. Andrews or Dornoch or Machrihanish.

[Jim Franklin]

Sand Hills
Friars Head
Old Sandwich
Colorado GC
Bandon Trails
Hidden Creek
Cuscowilla
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
Barton Creek
Talking Stick North

[Craig Van Egmond]

Sand Hills
Kapalua
Talking Stick North
Talking Stick South

A short but sweet list..

[Michael J. Moss]

I've played only three, but have been fortunate to have played each several times. They're as close to perfect as one might reasonably expect.

Sand Hills
Friars Head
Bandon Trails

When I completed first rounds SH and FH, I could easily recall each hole. They were that distictive. Also, each course may possess the wildest collection of greens I've ever played. Interesting to note, all three courses have amazing short par-3 17th holes (Bandon Trails' 17th being more of a mid-iron from the back), and are followed by big, grown-up par-4 finishers. Coincidence?

[Peter Pallotta]

Gents, maybe not an easy question (certainly a simplistic one) but:

If you had to pick, what would you say is the main/most important difference between the C&C course you ranked highest and the one you ranked lowest?

Thanks
Peter

[John Kirk]

That's easy, Peter.

Topography, and soil composition.

[Trey Kemp]

I have only played his courses in Texas and Kapalua in Hawaii, but here is my list:

New Courses:

1. Kapalua Plantation
2. Austin Golf Club
3. Barton Creek Crenshaw Course

Renovations:

1. Brook Hollow
2. Onion Creek Club (renovated the original 18 and added 9)
3. Shady Oaks

[Peter Pallotta]

John K
thanks for that. That's interesting, especially because it was so clear and easy for you to determine. I'm gonna think about that for a while.

Peter

[Mike Sweeney]

There are alot of holes on Long Island (and in Westchester for that matter) that aren't even a figment of most on this web sites imagination that compare to holes at Friars Head.

Just check out the Robert Deruntz Glen Head thread.

I actually drove into Silver Spring in Ridgefield CT on Saturday because of Robert's recent pictures of the course posted here. Driving in and taking a quick look, it appeared to be similar to a 100 other parkland style courses around here. I have no doubt the individual holes are very nice as per Robert's pics.

However, the Friars Head property is completely unique in comparison to any course on Long Island. Maidstone has a similar uniqueness because of the dunes there.

On the C&C list, I stand side by side with Mike Cirba.

I have not played Easthampton, but I have seen enough to say it will probably sit below Hidden Creek, and what I saw of the construction and land at Surgarloaf, it will probably be similar to Easthampton.

That said, I would be happy to be a member at either one.

Of C&C courses I've played...

Sand Hills

Friars Head
Cuscowilla
Hidden Creek