Mid Ocean Club for PGA Grand Slam event today

[Eric_Terhorst]

As noted on G. Shackelford's site, the Mid Ocean Club, playing at ~6700 yards, is the site for the tournament featuring the four major winners in stroke play.

On TNT at 4pm eastern.

See flyovers and other course info here
http://www.pga.com/grandslam/2007/course/hole_01.html

[Paul Stephenson]

My parents are there.  I told them to bring their cameras.  Maybe I'll have pics to post.

[Roger Tufts]

Will be interesting to see any differences in scoring/play styles given the competitors and the different location. I loved watching this event at Poipu, and typically being in the area at the time, it was even more fascinating. Both are BEAUTIFUL locations.

[Tim Copeland]

As noted on G. Shackelford's site, the Mid Ocean Club, playing at ~6700 yards, is the site for the tournament featuring the four major winners in stroke play.

On TNT at 4pm eastern.

See flyovers and other course info here
http://www.pga.com/grandslam/2007/course/hole_01.html

Nope...3 Major winners plus Jim Furyk

[Roger Tufts]

Looks like these guys have learned to play the Redan so far...
Was hoping for a #7 Shinnecock-2004-style domination of the field *albeit very small) from #17.

I figure #11 is a very easy hole for these guys...

[Phil Benedict]

Roger,

You may be trashed for revealing the scores, which I think are very interesting given the yardage.  Would have expected lower scores for 6700 yards.

I've played Mid-Ocean several times; thought it was great; but knew nothing about the architectural heritage of the holes.  Will probably tape tomorrow's round.

[Roger Tufts]

Roger,

You may be trashed for revealing the scores, which I think are very interesting given the yardage.  Would have expected lower scores for 6700 yards.

Indeed, caught myself on that one. Thanks. And yeah I was somewhat surprised at the scores, especially with the distance of Angel and Padraig.

Sorry to all who saw that, Enjoy.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm drawing an absolute blank on #18 being a par 5, I think I remember it as a par 4.  Has anything changed?

Like Phil I played Mid Ocean years ago before I knew much about GCA.  But I knew I really liked #5 and the Biarritz and Redan!

[KBanks]

Eighteen at Mid Ocean is a par 4. Has it been revised in some way?

Ken

[Phil Benedict]

I'm drawing an absolute blank on #18 being a par 5, I think I remember it as a par 4.  Has anything changed?

Like Phil I played Mid Ocean years ago before I knew much about GCA.  But I knew I really liked #5 and the Biarritz and Redan!

I thought it was a par 4 as well and about 100 yards shorter.

This was one of the first courses I played where I could appreciate that some thought had gone in to the design.

[Mike Sweeney]

I think they used this tee. It has been a few years since I have been there, and they did not have to worry about flow with only 4 players on the course:

[Roger Tufts]

I think they used this tee. It has been a few years since I have been there, and they did not have to worry about flow with only 4 players on the course:

I was wondering that... on the course website, the picture they have from the 18th tee shows a carry over the little bay/cove there, but the Hole Overview Layout (the 3D model) doesn't show that tee box.

Good spot.

[Bill_McBride]

Mike, thanks for posting that aerial.  The tee we played in 1990 was opposite #17 green, so a +- 400 yard par 4 #18.

Interesting, the par is now 70, so a couple of the shorter par 5s have been made into par 4s.

The most interesting thing about the aerial is all the bunkering on #1 - we played the first hole as a pretty good squall came through and I didn't see much but the back of the caddy and the greensite through all that rain.     So the first remains a mystery.  After that it cleared up.   Some really cool holes, MacDonald had to do some very creative routing to build all the template holes there.  The Biarritz is a terrific rendition down in that valley surrounded by hillsides.

Is there another course where you play across roads as much as at Mid-Ocean?

Oh yes - you get a real appreciation of the value of land on Bermuda when you get your first look at the "driving range."  Is there a worst warm up area anywhere for a course that pricey to play?

[Adam Clayman]

Perhaps Mr. Doak could share what his firm has been retained to do to the course? Has it been done?

Watching just now I couldn't help but see the similarity to the 1st green at MOC and the last hole at Kapalua. All from the TV's perspective, mind you.

[Mike Sweeney]

 I don't know who is watching this but it is very fascinating to see them playing a 6700 yard course with angles that they may never have seen before.

[Bill Gayne]

It's good to watch on TV and having George Bahto's book to read about the original course and viewing the pictures of the current course on TV.

[PThomas]

Perhaps Mr. Doak could share what his firm has been retained to do to the course? Has it been done?

Watching just now I couldn't help but see the similarity to the 1st green at MOC and the last hole at Kapalua. All from the TV's perspective, mind you.

i believe Tom redid all the greens

[George_Bahto]

To no avail, I’ve been trying to find out what the original Macdonald/Raynor course looked like when completed, especially to see the positions of their bunkering.

If anyone has any information about this, please contact me.

[Bob_Huntley]

What is it about a MacDonald course that makes every one that he designed  probably the most enjoyable venue that you experience in a lifetime?

The last time I played Mid-Ocean I had as my partner the Chief Justice of the Court of Bermuda. A fierce competitor and no friend of the Mulligan. I must say that when one says I could play a course daily forever and not get bored, Mid- Ocean comes to mind.


Bob

[Eric_Terhorst]

I don't know who is watching this but it is very fascinating to see them playing a 6700 yard course with angles that they may never have seen before.

Mike, I agree this was an entertaining little show.  It was great to see the course's elevation changes, the grainy greens, and the slight breeze all affect the players' calculations.  On the tenth hole they all had wedges in their hands and only one made birdie.  Plus they didn't seem to be grinding that much--seemed like a casual competition.  

Angel Cabrera, with absolutely no pre-shot routine, is great fun to watch.

[TEPaul]

George:

It's a good question what the course originally looked like and how it's evolved.

Recently I officiated at a fifteen year old event called the Macdonald Cup in which six Macdonald clubs compete against one another in a team event.

One very nice man from Mid Ocean was trying to explain to me how the course has changed over the years, particularly due to the loss of some original golf course land to residential development. Apparently that changed a few holes via their original tees and such (perhaps even a green or two as well) and for that reason some holes were somewhat reconfigured---apparently by RTJ.

I've played Mid Ocean some years ago but I was having a hard time following his explanations of the course's evolution.

It sounded to me like some in the club are looking to get into some kind of restoration project---at least as much as they can do now under the circumstances of that evolution.

It also sounded to me like they want to add some distance to the course.

I don't recall him saying that the club has hired Doak but I hope they have.

I think the first thing the club needs is a really good design evolution report tracking all the changes to the course from beginning until to date.

[TEPaul]

I've become a big fan of that Angel Cabrera. I just love his no muss/no fuss way of playing. He just looks things over and takes out a club and whacks the tar out of it quick.

That couldn't have been a more exciting finish the first time over #18---eg to tie with an eagle like that.

I think the remarks by Furyk were pretty interesting too---eg how the green speed on those greens were giving the players fits. Don't let anyone tell you those greens were 12 or 13 either. In my opinion, they were probably just a good 11 at most. That's what happens on old fashioned greens at speeds around a REAL 11.

[Jim Nugent]

They did not take the course apart -- winning score was 136.  If the entire field of a top PGA event had played there, would anyone have gone really low?  Might we have seen some 8 to 10 under par scores?  

If not, how did such a short course keep some of the world's best players at bay, relatively speaking?    

[BCrosby]

What is it about a MacDonald course that makes every one that he designed  probably the most enjoyable venue that you experience in a lifetime?

.... I must say that when one says I could play a course daily forever and not get bored, Mid- Ocean comes to mind.

Bob

Exactly right. On three visits I've played Mid-O 10 or 12 times. There is no other course I know that is so pleasurable.

Which is what it is supposed to be about.

Bob

[Craig Disher]

I haven't played MO in at least a dozen years but from what I saw on the broadcast large areas of trees and scrub appear to have been cleared. Unless my memory is faulty, the area on the left of the 1st fairway was lined with trees and bushes to the extent that the 17th green wasn't visible. Now, the area around the 1st, 17th and 18th is almost completely open. Trees and scrub also appear to have been removed around #9, #10 and #13.

Is the trough in the 13th green cut to fairway height? The TV view gave me the impression that the front and back halves of the green were cut to green height but were divided by rough. My memory from the 90s is that only the back of the green was used. The front through the swale was cut as fairway.