News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Ranch -San Jose
« on: October 11, 2007, 03:51:25 PM »
Is The Ranch in San Jose any good?  I thought I read on here that it wasn't (esp. for the money), but I couldnt find anything in the last year using the search feature.

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 03:57:35 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D

Sorry AS, but I have to laugh.  We've discussed THE RANCH many times in here... and well... people give me a hard time because I tend to like all golf courses, but that one I absolutely hate.

It is by far and away the worst course in the Bay Area:  for the money, for one's sanity, for one's golfing soul, by any measure.

It is well and truly AWFUL.  It is so severe, well... the numbers will tell you all you need to know.  Go to ncga.org and look up the yardages, ratings, slopes.  Don't trust their website, which is pure fabrication.  The black tees they list simply do not exist.

All this being said, well... there are some nice views to be had from up atop the mountain on which this horrid course sits.

And the greens and fairways are generally in quite nice condition.

It's just one of those courses where one tends to lose a golf ball for every stroke of his handicap.  If that doesn't bother you, nor does three figure prices, well then have at it.

TH

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 03:58:52 PM »
Did Scott Burroughs ever accept the walking challenge at The Ranch?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 04:00:56 PM »
Did Scott Burroughs ever accept the walking challenge at The Ranch?

Yes; that's why he rarely posts any more - he's still recovering from the lung transplant.

 ;D

TH

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 04:09:34 PM »
This must be the most maligned course on this website.

An old thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17355;start=0


Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 04:18:17 PM »
Jason - thanks.  Now AS can get more than he'll ever care to read about this monstrosity of a golf course.  And reading that was a nice trip down memory lane.

Some updates and notes:

1. Aidan was as good as his word... I am looking at a large print of #12 The Ranch right now - he sent it to me and it hangs in my cube.  Aidan remains a genius, and a good egg.

2. We went and did the three year re-rate this year, and to my astonishment, they HAD cut back the brush on many of the hillsides!  So while the course does remain awful, it's not quite as stupid as before.  One won't lose as many golf balls.  Oh, one still will lose quite a few... just not on shots 5 yards off the fairways as it was before.  

3. Due to this and some changes in the rating rules and methods, look for the stupidly silly slope numbers to go down a bit.  They should be published pretty soon.

TH

Gib_Papazian

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 04:30:01 PM »
Actually, I highly recommend The Ranch as an educational experience. If you want to see to what lengths a developer will go to jam a golf course on land better suited for petons and climbing rope than golf, there it sits.

The golf course is so hideous - and this is not the fault of the Casey O'Callaghan - that it warrants a special trip solely for entertainment value. I strongly suggest an apres' golf detoxification program of tequila  to help shake off any damage done to your psyche.

To get the full effect of this tragicomedy, it is important to play it in the late afternoon when the wind is howling 40 MPH. Play speeds up on the back nine because most groups either quit in disgust or simply run out of golf balls.

I've always held that my first round at NGLA changed forever what I thought was possible. The same can be said for The Ranch.    ;D
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 04:34:17 PM by Gib Papazian »

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 04:31:24 PM »
Great points, Gib!  I've also said before that I actually consider Casey O. a genius for getting a golf course at all into that awful land.  And I am dead serious on that point.


Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 04:35:34 PM »
Jason - thanks.  Now AS can get more than he'll ever care to read about this monstrosity of a golf course.  And reading that was a nice trip down memory lane.

Some updates and notes:

1. Aidan was as good as his word... I am looking at a large print of #12 The Ranch right now - he sent it to me and it hangs in my cube.  Aidan remains a genius, and a good egg.

2. We went and did the three year re-rate this year, and to my astonishment, they HAD cut back the brush on many of the hillsides!  So while the course does remain awful, it's not quite as stupid as before.  One won't lose as many golf balls.  Oh, one still will lose quite a few... just not on shots 5 yards off the fairways as it was before.  

3. Due to this and some changes in the rating rules and methods, look for the stupidly silly slope numbers to go down a bit.  They should be published pretty soon.

TH

I still need to go see this place.

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 04:37:59 PM »
Well, as Gib says, it is worth seeing, for the education.

And if taken with the proper sense of humor and zero expectations, well... you could have fun.

Just please please please don't pay $100 to play this course unless that's what you tip bathroom attendants.

TH
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 04:39:22 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 04:38:23 PM »
Huck,

I went to the site and took a look at the animated flyovers.  With the exception of #11 and 18, the holes looked impossibly narrow. I'm guessing the course is pretty true to these animations in real life??

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 04:41:01 PM »
Kalen:

You sadist, you made me go and look at those flyovers.  I made it through three holes.  If anything, those make it look WIDER than it really is.

TH

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 04:48:01 PM »
71.3/147 from the blues.  that's unique.  thanks for the replies.  I'll avoid that course.  

By the way, Tom, I was expecting a little more from my $57 walking rate this past Sunday at Santa Teresa.  My 1st time there.  Nocal golf seems quite a bit more overpriced than LA and Ventura CO golf.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 04:49:19 PM »
Kalen:

You sadist, you made me go and look at those flyovers.  I made it through three holes.  If anything, those make it look WIDER than it really is.

TH

Huck,

Hey what are friends for other than to bring joy to each others life?   ;D

If they really are more narrow in real life than they look on those flyovers then that looks like one hellavu kick-yer-arse kind of golf course.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 04:50:54 PM »
71.3/147 from the blues.  that's unique.  thanks for the replies.  I'll avoid that course.  

By the way, Tom, I was expecting a little more from my $57 walking rate this past Sunday at Santa Teresa.  My 1st time there.  Nocal golf seems quite a bit more overpriced than LA and Ventura CO golf.

You have to avoid golf in the south bay and penisula if you want good affordable golf.  Head up to the East Bay and North Bay and you'll find better offerings at a cheaper price.

I can list a few if you like..
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 04:51:12 PM by Kalen Braley »

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 04:54:12 PM »
AS:  all of CA golf is way overpriced.  But you might be right, our "basic" courses up here are more overpriced than those in LA or OC.  Our CCFAD's are pretty crazy too, but then again you have places like Monarch Beach and Pelican Hill that make ours look like downright steals.  So of course it's going to depend on the course, and it is tough to generalize.  In any case, no way is Santa Teresa worth $57, as you saw.  Such is golf life.  But compared to others that are three figures - which are far too many in our area - it's not a bad deal.

Just curious as you may be the first non-local to play my home course:

a) did you get around in less than 6 hours?  I'd be surprised if that was the case if you played on a weekend... and

b) was there anything you did like?  I actually do like the course a lot more than I let on here, cost and horrid pace of play nothwithstanding.  The greens are fabulous - lots of contour and damn good condition especially for how much play the course gets - and there are some very fun golf holes, particularly on the back nine.  Whaddya think?

c) did you happen to get a look at any of the trophies in the trophy case?  Notice any familiar names engraved?   ;D



Kalen:  you haven't gotten the picture by now that this IS a kick ye arse kinda course?  I believe it is the poster course for such term.

TH
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 04:55:23 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Gib_Papazian

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2007, 05:01:07 PM »
Oh Huck, I give Casey maximum "dap" for managing what seems an engineering feat on the order of Lido.

That stated, I am surprised he did not insist on a *nom de plume* as the architect of record. Like Herman Schwartz, or Rees Jones . . . . yeah, that's the ticket!

The Ranch is a cautionary tale to every developer blinded by greed and the hallucination that even a terrible golf course will sell houses. I've got to disagree in part about your proclamation of The Ranch as the worst golf course in the Bay Area.

The original Blackhawk CC course still sits at the top of my pantheon of disasters, right beside Pasadera.

It still astounds me that more developers don't opt for a "Dublin Ranch" type design, because it makes more sense. That course is routed on poor land, but it is not as noticeable because there are so many par-3's.

If daddy comes home from work and wants to go play a few holes with his kids or wife at The Ranch, it requires 20 minutes a hole and a tourniquet to stop the bleeding from your ears.

Yet at Dublin Ranch, it is not ridiculously crowded and you can play a quick nine with the kids in about an hour and a half on a sane golf course.  

Whitten tried to get some interest generated years ago in identifying the really fine "Executive Length" and "Par-3" courses in America for the panel, but could not get anybody to care.

Sad, really. I prodded him about it quite a bit and while he agreed we were missing the boat here, there is still a terrible bias against golf courses of less than par 70 and 6500 yards long.

It is this absurd perception that drives projects like The Ranch. Otherwise, that parcel of land might have made an interesting short course.

 

Gib_Papazian

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2007, 05:05:01 PM »
And let us not forget that 6 mile cart ride between the 11th green and 12th tee . . . . . . we drove so far I thought we were lost and had to check the GPS to see if we were in Morgan Hill.

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2007, 05:11:36 PM »
Aw come on Gib, you ole story teller and exaggerater... it's not 6 miles from 11 green to 12 tee... it's only 1.3.

We measured it last time.

 ;)

Good call re Dublin Ranch, btw... and it's actually intriguing to think what a cool par 62 or so could have been made out of the land at The Ranch...

TH
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 05:12:56 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Gib_Papazian

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2007, 05:15:20 PM »
I thought of that clear back when I wrote this a couple years ago:


DUBLIN RANCH GOLF COURSE.

The idea of a so-called ““executive length”” golf course is an instant turn-off for many players; unfortunately they miss some unique layouts like Dublin Ranch Golf Course, the subject of this month’’s installment of our ““Road Trips for County Golfers”” series.

Located just two miles off highway 580 at the Fallon Road exit in Dublin, Robert Trent Jones, II senior architect Don Knott transformed an undulating parcel of land into a delightful and entertaining string of holes for players of every ability.

There is a tendency in this country to dismiss any golf course with a par of less than 70 with yardage under 6500 yards as ““too easy.”” Dublin Ranch, with a par of 63 and 4820 yards is a legitimate test of golf. Throw in a little wind and the average 15 handicapper will do well to break 80.

It reminds me of an English fellow I met in a pub many years ago. We were discussing the overall length of golf courses in England vs. the United States. He chuckled (with a hint of a sneer) ““Well, your courses may be longer than ours, but not certainly not better. In America, ‘‘big’’ is its own justification, isn’’t it?””

Ouch. One only has to look at that horrendous mess at ““The Ranch Golf Club”” in San Jose for an example of the stupidity of trying to jam a full sized layout on acreage better suited to a shorter course.

By contrast, Dublin Ranch flows with the land, taking full advantage of scenic views and natural greensites with an ingenious routing that includes a par-five on both sides of the 31-32-63 total par.
Each nine hole sequence more or less follows a clockwise circle, presenting a different wind direction from all points on the compass.

The strength of the golf course is in the eleven par-three holes. They vary in length from 143 to 224 yards, each completely unique. The shorter holes require pinpoint precision, the longer ones provide ample area to use the contours of the ground to run the ball to the hole.

Our favorite features on the course were part of an overall theme to encourage several different approach shot options with mounds, rolls, folds and kick-points. Depending on the pin placement and shifting wind directions, a 150 yard shot might require anything between a 9-iron and a 4-iron

The fringes of the green are kept closely mowed on one side or another, so short hitters, women and seniors have few forced carries to contend with.

Despite the awful weather of late, the conditions were outstanding with firm fairways, manicured nearly perfect. The putting surfaces are smooth and consistent. In truth, it is a public course with better overall agronomy than the vast majority of the private clubs.

Unless you show up on a weekend morning, play moves along at a brisk pace. A gentleman I played with tells me you can walk up most afternoons with little or no waiting. We played on a Sunday afternoon and got around the course in about three hours. Dublin Ranch opened a year ago and word of its quality has not spread much further than the locals.

Our favorite holes included the 7th, a drop-shot from a terraced tee box to a green nestled at the bottom of a natural depression. In the distance are rolling hills with towering Mt. Diablo as the centerpiece. To the left a lonely radar dish listening to the stars.

As Dublin Ranch is routed along a series of high ridges, there are expansive panoramas on nearly every hole. My only complaint was a series of garish tract houses on three holes crowding the fringes of my photos with the requisite tiny backyards, enclosed with ugly green iron fences.

We also liked the ninth hole, a par-4 that slides around a corner bunker to a firm green fronted by a steep ramp. The putting surface is divided into sections, altering the strategy of where to land the approach shot with every move of the pin.

Normally, long par-3's can be a slog with no personality. Knott did a superb job with the 224 yard 15th by constructing a sprawling putting surface with 40 yards in front to chase the ball onto the green. At Dublin Ranch, the holes that look difficult can be parred with nothing more than a decent swing and a little brains.

By contrast, for the overly aggressive, trouble lurks. The phrase ““deceptively easy”” is an apt description of the 17th - a 143 yard par-4 that looks to be little more than a long pitch. Yet the wind swirls, and the narrow and wide putting surface guarded front and left lures you towards a steep fall-off. The smart play is to the bailout area hidden on the right, that kicks the ball onto the green.

At Dublin Ranch you must look hard and think carefully.

The par-5 18th hole might be the most intricate, strategic and downright clever finishing hole in the Bay Area. At 521 yards, the fairway splits into two landing areas, divided by a grassy wall. The left side is an easier target and carry, but confronts players with a blind second shot over a bunker. Staying left also leaves a maddening uphill third over yawning bunkers with the green falling away.

Staying to the right off the tee has its own set of problems, including an uphill carry and a hungry bunker that must be carried on the second. However, two good shots that reach the optimal landing area are rewarded with an inviting pitch to a wide-open target.

For apres’’ golf, the clubhouse facilities and hilltop view are first cabin. Fees run from $47 to $65, Twilight rates (3PM) from $35 to $48. A replay is only $35 and there are special rates for Juniors and Seniors. Phone 925-556-7040 Ext#2, or look them up on the web at www.dublinranchgolf.com
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 05:32:08 PM by Gib Papazian »

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2007, 05:26:17 PM »
You remain the MAN, Gib.

Great stuff.

 ;D

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2007, 05:39:44 PM »
AS:  all of CA golf is way overpriced.  But you might be right, our "basic" courses up here are more overpriced than those in LA or OC.  Our CCFAD's are pretty crazy too, but then again you have places like Monarch Beach and Pelican Hill that make ours look like downright steals.  So of course it's going to depend on the course, and it is tough to generalize.  In any case, no way is Santa Teresa worth $57, as you saw.  Such is golf life.  But compared to others that are three figures - which are far too many in our area - it's not a bad deal.

Just curious as you may be the first non-local to play my home course:

a) did you get around in less than 6 hours?  I'd be surprised if that was the case if you played on a weekend... and


4hr 50 min.  not bad compared to the 5 hr 35 min at aptos seascape (speaking of overpriced) the day before.


b) was there anything you did like?  I actually do like the course a lot more than I let on here, cost and horrid pace of play nothwithstanding.  The greens are fabulous - lots of contour and damn good condition especially for how much play the course gets - and there are some very fun golf holes, particularly on the back nine.  Whaddya think?


The greens were indeed very good.  The back 9 is definitely better than the completely flat front.  I liked 12, 15, 16.  


c) did you happen to get a look at any of the trophies in the trophy case?  Notice any familiar names engraved?   ;D


sorry.  missed that tourist attraction.  did they erect a statue of you as well?   ;)


Kalen:  you haven't gotten the picture by now that this IS a kick ye arse kinda course?  I believe it is the poster course for such term.

TH

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2007, 05:45:00 PM »
AS:

Great stuff.  And 4:50 is pretty damn good... for us regulars when that happens (and it sometimes does) it feels like we're flying.  Sad, but true.

12, 15, 16 are all very cool golf holes - I'm especially pleased you cited 12, which a lot of people DON'T like given the trees in the way.  It's my favorite hole on the course, because there are just so many ways you can play it.  You can say the same about 15 - I've learned over the years to lay back off that tee, but many try to bust it up to the base of the hill.  And 16 is just a very strong par 3.  Great calls.  Man it's fun to talk substance about my home course - never thought I'd get to in here.

As for the statue, that comes after I win club championship #3.  Two only gets you two mentions on the big trophy.

 ;D ;D

TH

ps - you are oh so right about Seascape.. do not get me started....
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 05:46:14 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2007, 05:47:42 PM »
Huck, huck, huck...

I just mapped it using Google Maps and its only .65 miles from 11 green to 12 tee..  :)

17 green to 18 tee also clocked in at a measly .45 miles.

Crazy stuff indeed...

« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 06:51:04 PM by Kalen Braley »

Tom Huckaby

Re:The Ranch -San Jose
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2007, 05:50:07 PM »
Kalen - did you count all the twists and turns?  And how can you trust that sad product from that inferior company?

 ;D

But OK, OK, I was exaggerating also.  I do recall that using the hand-held Bushnell we added it up at around a mile.  

Oh yes, these are mega-hikes.  Thus the long ago challenge to Scott "I'll never take a cart" Burroughs.

BTW, check out some of the cart rides on the front nine... and remember this site is far far far from flat....

TH