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Jay Flemma

A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« on: October 09, 2007, 04:06:41 PM »
***rolling eyes***  Wow...you designers better pick up your greens a notch - this woman can read a green from 150 yards away - even on a course she's never seen before!

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=3054244

From the piece:

"She's practically a neophyte, new to the game five years ago, and now at age 47 has reported more holes-in-one in six months than most PGA Tour players make in a career. By one count, she did the 16 in 118 rounds this year. That comes to a hole-in-one once every 30 swings on par 3s, a rate of success that causes Dean Knuth, creator of the U.S. Golf Association's Slope Rating System and a Golf Digest contributor, to blurt this assessment: "That's impossible." David Boyum is a math guy with a Harvard Ph.D. and co-author of What the Numbers Say. He puts the odds of Gagne's feat at "1 in 2,253,649,101,066,840, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000."

WHat do you all think abiout Peter Kostis buying into all this?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 04:12:03 PM by Jay Flemma »

Kalen Braley

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 04:10:24 PM »
Jay,

I read that article yesterday and what a bunch of crapolla.  The beginning of the article presents the "for" case, but the last half really puts the "damn" in damning.  Especially in light of how much character flaw she has for telling the truth...

Dan Kelly

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 04:12:24 PM »
She's just hoping for a date with Kim Jung-il.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

John Kavanaugh

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 04:16:56 PM »
Roy Orbison was not blind.

Jay Flemma

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 04:29:37 PM »
look at this "video" of the hole-in-one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AGnf6fV6oA

This is grainier than the Zapruder film.

Matt_Cohn

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 04:30:32 PM »
"She's more likely to be hit by lightning 163 billion times than to do what she's done."

I like the stat that Tiger hasn't holed a shot for five years from the distance that Jacquie apparently holes about 1 out of every 30.

As the writer says, c'mon...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AGnf6fV6oA

Steve Lapper

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 04:58:51 PM »
My family have been members of Mission Hills, Rancho Mirage,CA for over 20+yrs and they don't believe a single word of it. Anything else needed??

« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 08:56:17 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

JeffTodd

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 05:00:17 PM »
After reading that no one ever seems to see the ball go in the hole, I am wondering if anyone is familiar with any of the holes on which she claims these aces? Are they blind shots?

Powell Arms

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 05:01:57 PM »
"She's more likely to be hit by lightning 163 billion times than to do what she's done."

I like the stat that Tiger hasn't holed a shot for five years from the distance that Jacquie apparently holes about 1 out of every 30.

As the writer says, c'mon...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AGnf6fV6oA

Apparently she adds a step Tiger omits.  After reading the green from 125-150 yds, factor in an approach shot which ricochets off of a tree or out of a pocket, and the success rate goes way up.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 05:02:56 PM by Powell Arms »
PowellArms@gmail.com
@PWArms

Jay Flemma

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 05:04:01 PM »
Yeah, she could teach Tiger and Jack a thing or two.

Do you realize she "has" more holes in one in a seven month period than Jack had in his life.  Quick!  She should be on tour!  She shot 66-61 at one course.

Matt_Cohn

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 05:15:15 PM »
5 and 8 on the shore course both have pin positions where the bottom of the cup could potentially be hidden from the tee behind a low mound; but they are nothing like "blind".

Jay Flemma

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 05:40:40 PM »
Tom Doak, inquiring minds want to know...how will you build a par-3 green to defend par against this Tigress?

Seriously though people.  Let's figure out how the ball can keep ending up in the cup.  I saw that one part where she ran and teed off before her playing partners arrived and she said "it went in."  Is it possible there is an accomplice that pulls a "Dell Hole" before she even arrives at the tee?

Kalen Braley

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 05:43:25 PM »
The real indictment here is not really on her. I mean its really not her fault that there are so many gullible people who will believe this hogwash...

Gotta put the blame squarely on ESPN for even running trash like this in the first place....

Oh well..
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 05:43:42 PM by Kalen Braley »

John Kavanaugh

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 05:51:48 PM »
Funny thing about this site is that a woman who has claims to have 16 holes in one is questioned and made fun of while at the same time a woman who claims to be a member of SFGC and CPC is cyberly felt up.

George Pazin

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 05:52:08 PM »
Gotta disagree with you there, Kalen. Sure the media deserves some blame for continuing to sell this horseshit, and for enabling her problem, but the first person in line in the blame game is still Jacqueline Gagne.

She has a problem and should seek help. Just sad.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jay Flemma

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2007, 05:55:17 PM »
Gotta disagree with you there, Kalen. Sure the media deserves some blame for continuing to sell this horseshit, and for enabling her problem, but the first person in line in the blame game is still Jacqueline Gagne.

She has a problem and should seek help. Just sad.

What really surprises me is Peter Kostis' involvement in the whole affair.  I wonder if he had reservations, but went along with it in the same way everyone ran with the Michelle Wie story too...as in "it may be too good to be true, but I dont wanna be the party pooper."

Kalen Braley

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2007, 05:58:15 PM »
Gotta disagree with you there, Kalen. Sure the media deserves some blame for continuing to sell this horseshit, and for enabling her problem, but the first person in line in the blame game is still Jacqueline Gagne.

She has a problem and should seek help. Just sad.

Understood....

But the fundamental basis as to why this story was even run in the 1st place is completely beyond me. Why feed into the crap-cakes? There must be dozens of attention whores out there who will do this same thing for thier 15 minutes of fame.  So why was this lady given the air time when her HIOs are sketchy at best and mostly unable to be corroborated??

Has the media really been reduced to running stories such as this?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised....

There are plenty of pyschos running around out there with a whopper of a story to tell, perhaps the inmates really are running the asylum..
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 05:59:27 PM by Kalen Braley »

John Kavanaugh

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2007, 06:01:43 PM »
I think this site needs to be careful about who we choose to label a liar.  

Isn't it nice to have a place where we can put down women, brag about our favorite celebrity sightings and tell stories about ignorant members of great clubs that doubt Thomas..  

The only outright lie I read in the piece was the implication that Roy Orbison was blind.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 06:03:49 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Kalen Braley

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2007, 06:04:38 PM »
I think this site needs to be careful about who we choose to label a liar.  

Isn't it nice to have a place where we can put down women, brag about our favorite celebrity sightings and tell stories about members of great clubs that we meet.  

The only outright lie I read in the piece was the implication that Roy Orbison was blind.

Agreed Barney,

I think this forum would be a much better place if we used it to vent our frustrations by bagging on the supers of our local course... :P  ;D

« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 06:04:55 PM by Kalen Braley »

Bob_Huntley

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2007, 06:13:53 PM »
John,

This woman has a problem. Anyone believing her story has a bigger one. There I have said it, I do think she is lying.

Bob

George Pazin

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2007, 06:13:59 PM »
John, this isn't a matter of putting down women, as you say. I'd think you of all people would applaud someone calling it like they see it, not bowing down to political correctness.

The article I read (Golf Digest's article) said the author was not able to verify a single witness - not one - to any shot, despite numerous attempts to verify. Numerous courses were not even able to verify she played there, and numerous witnesses expressed incredulity at the results.

Maybe I should say in my opinion she needs help, but again, I would've thought you'd be against such parsing.

Jay, I can't see why Peter Kostis would buy in either, other than wanting to be in the limelight, which, given his position, is also a little hard to believe. I'd guess he just wants to believe the story. Heck, I'd like to believe it, too, but it is way beyond believable.

I can easily accept someone having an ace that they didn't witness, or even that no one witnessed. I cannot accept repeated explanations of a ball headed into the trees, or right of some bunker, only to be found in the hole. Call me a skeptic.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kalen Braley

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2007, 06:17:03 PM »
Can we put together a fund to hire a spotter to follow her around for the next 6 months and camp out on the par 3s she plays??

John Kavanaugh

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2007, 06:20:43 PM »
I of course don't believe her either but I don't believe in the integrity of my fellow golfers.  Or to quote Gib: "I think how an individual views the concept of "rating panels" speaks directly to their personal beliefs in the integrity of their fellow golfer - and also perhaps to their selfish unwillingness to share their home with a few fellow students of the game."

What does bother me is how quick we are to believe another lady who says she is a member of CPC and SFGC despite the fact that she says she has never heard of Riviera or LACC.  I think this site bends over backwards to believe what they want to believe.

C. Squier

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 06:30:51 PM »
John, just 10 years ago you didn't know anything about Shoreacres.  Newburgh to Lake Bluff is 350 miles and San Fran to LA is 380.

I think you've just paid this lady a very nice complement.  Or ripped yourself, one of the two.

CPS

Jay Flemma

Re:A one woman golf course architecture wrecking crew!
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2007, 06:41:52 PM »
he did it...Blarney got a rater bash into a thread about a woman claiming 16 sketchy hole in ones.  Man you are the king of non-sequitors.

G. pazin nailed it.  nobody is being sexist here.  We'd say the same exact thing if it was a man who did it, a kid or a duck-billed platypus.  The issue isn't what the person looked like, the issue is she's cried wolf 16 times and NOBODY SAW THE WOLF.

Now I have a question - read this excerpt from the GD article first:

"Money was a given. Gagne shared a big Rancho Mirage house with her longtime friend and playing partner, psychotherapist Barbara Kreedman. She drove a little Mercedes. In celebration of her holes-in-one, she threw champagne parties at the club. She used the good times as reproofs to skeptics, saying, in essence, no one would cheat knowing it would cost thousands in Dom Pérignon. Besides, she said, there was the deal where club members kick in $5 for every hole-in-one.

"I would have to pay off a ton of people if it was a lie," she wrote to me, "and then if I was not telling the truth I would be arrested for stealing."

I'm confused - do you read this as she actually received $5 per member for a hole-in-one?  Steve L, how many members are there at Mission Hills?  If there are 300 members, does that mean you get $1,500 for scoring a single ace?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 06:50:46 PM by Jay Flemma »

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