[John Kavanaugh]

DUVAL IS NOT AN EMPLOYEE.

Then why does he need a special exemption to work?  Why can't he just submit the low bid? (score)

[Craig Sweet]

I think it's an excellent decision...it's high time employers in this country recognize that staying home from work with a sick kid or a spouse, or dealing with ANY family crisis, is not an opportunity to punish the worker...

This subject makes me wonder...what happens to the fully exempt pro that decides to play only 10 times for example? Are they fined for not playing a minimum number of tournaments?

[John Kavanaugh]

I think it's an excellent decision...it's high time employers in this country recognize that staying home from work with a sick kid or a spouse, or dealing with ANY family crisis, is not an opportunity to punish the worker...

This subject makes me wonder...what happens to the fully exempt pro that decides to play only 10 times for example? Are they fined for not playing a minimum number of tournaments?

Craig,

There are very good family leave laws on the books.  Duval stretched the intent of the law and asked to be treated special.

[Craig Sweet]

John...whether Duval can afford to take the time off or not is not the issue. Everyone in a similar situation is going to have to make their own decision based on their financial situation...put no one should have to fear loss of status/job/etc. when they need to take the time off...

[Craig Sweet]

John, with all due respect, our "family leave" laws in this country are terrible...and then they run smack into work place culture, tradition, employer expectations,etc....more than one industry has had to readjust years of a "this is how we treat our workers" aditude to comply with these meager family leave laws....the PGA tour is not the first to rethink this issue.

[John Kavanaugh]

John...whether Duval can afford to take the time off or not is not the issue. Everyone in a similar situation is going to have to make their own decision based on their financial situation...put no one should have to fear loss of status/job/etc. when they need to take the time off...

That is why the law spells out a specified time to protect both the employee and employer.  Let's say you have a kid who is an excellent golfer but suffers from a rare skin desease that does not allow him to be exposed to the sun for any prolonged period of time.  if you are going to love him and allow him to reach his potential you need to have the golfing season off to hold an umbrella over his head when lining up his shots or at other times when his hands are not free.  You do of course take the umbrella away when he is stroking the ball as the rules require.  Are you entitled to take off work each summer and keep your job because you have a sick kid that needs your love?  I would say no.

[Doug Sobieski]

As an independent contractor you get your job back through low bid (scores) or superior performance.  Duval would have these opportunities to earn his card without the exemption.

Under this premise, the players would be severely limited in the number of bids they could propose when they came back to work, and it would not be impossible, but very difficult for them to win any business (i.e. get their fully exempt status back).

Dudley would have failed to finish in the top 150 on the money list, which would have most likely dropped his priority from category 20 to category 30 (since he's a Veteran Member with more than 150 career cuts made), which would put another 40-50 guys in front of him trying to get into events. I guess Dudley should have made a better choice between his kids welfare and trying to maintain his exempt status.

Did this change happen without the Player Advisory Board knowing about it? I have to believe that they were on board. After all, the Tour is an organization FOR the players.

[Craig Sweet]

John, first of all I doubt Duval or any tour professional, and for the most part most golf course employees, would qualify under the Family Leave and Medical Act...for example...here's a definition of an eligible employee..

(3) Is employed at a worksite where 50 or more employees are
employed by the employer within 75 miles of that worksite. (See
Sec. 825.105(a) regarding employees who work outside the U.S.)

After we determine whether Duval is "employeed" by the PGA tour...or not...we can have...or not...this discusion based on the FLMA....

You feel he was given something he did not deserve due to his status and you have done nothing to prove, or convince me that Duval received special treatment based on status...

[Craig Sweet]

John..as for your "example" of the skin conditioned child, and the need to have a parent hold an umbrella over his head....PLEASE!!! Give us all a break!!  Read the Family Leave and Medical Act....

Duval played a few tournaments back in January and February and one tournament this fall...he essentially did not use the exemption he had to its fullest, and thus was not able to qualify for future exemptions...permanent status, etc. based on earnings...being offered a chance to have a full season to earn his way back onto the the tour was a good decision.

[John Kavanaugh]

As an independent contractor you get your job back through low bid (scores) or superior performance.  Duval would have these opportunities to earn his card without the exemption.

Under this premise, the players would be severely limited in the number of bids they could propose when they came back to work, and it would not be impossible, but very difficult for them to win any business (i.e. get their fully exempt status back).

Dudley would have failed to finish in the top 150 on the money list, which would have most likely dropped his priority from category 20 to category 30 (since he's a Veteran Member with more than 150 career cuts made), which would put another 40-50 guys in front of him trying to get into events. I guess Dudley should have made a better choice between his kids welfare and trying to maintain his exempt status.

Did this change happen without the Player Advisory Board knowing about it? I have to believe that they were on board. After all, the Tour is an organization FOR the players.

Wouldn't Hart get a pass to the final stage of Q school?  He can submit his low bid there and if it is not low enough take sponsors exemptions and his status on the Nationwide.

[Jim Nugent]

Does the tour have a policy or rule about these extensions?  Do its bylaws allow it to grant this type of exemption, when it chooses, to whomever it sees fit?    

I'm also not a lawyer.  That said, I'm not as sure as you are, John, that the tour's position is weak.  They may well have rules covering this situation.  

I know there are some attorneys on the board here.  What do you think?  

[John Kavanaugh]

Duval used a one-time exemption as top 25 on the career money list to keep his card this year, but it looked as though it might go to waste when his wife was put on bed rest in February because of complications with her pregnancy. Duval felt his responsibility was at home to care for his wife and four children, and he did not play for more than seven months.

This is not a real world excuse for missing seven months of work when you only work four days a week, and in most of his cases only two.  I could live with a pro-am exemption because of his sick wife but this whole scenerio and Duval's attitude since cashing in stinks.

[Doug Sobieski]

Duval used a one-time exemption as top 25 on the career money list to keep his card this year, but it looked as though it might go to waste when his wife was put on bed rest in February because of complications with her pregnancy. Duval felt his responsibility was at home to care for his wife and four children, and he did not play for more than seven months.

This is not a real world excuse for missing seven months of work when you only work four days a week, and in most of his cases only two.  I could live with a pro-am exemption because of his sick wife but this whole scenerio and Duval's attitude since cashing in stinks.

John:

Sounds like you might be focusing solely on Duval, and maybe you don't like him. Dudley is one of the most liked guys out there by the other players. Do you think this would have happened if it were Scott Hoch's wife or Rory Sabbatini's wife? Would this sit better with you if it were Fred Funk or some other crowd favorite?

[John Kavanaugh]

I have nothing against Duval.  I hate pro athletes who try to show the world they are better fathers than your typical working man when they skip work, sometimes for long periods of time, because they can afford to do so.  

I gotta give Tiger credit for being a man and playing the US Open when his wife was on the cusp of labor.  He did it because he knew he could win...If these other washed up glory seeking losers thought they could win they too would hire a nurse and be out there like any other man.  They are simply substituting true glory for false appreciation.

[Craig Sweet]

John..there is NOTHING real world about being a PGA tour pro....however, I am sure that Duval, and other pro's, work much more than 4 days a week...they have pro am obligations, sponsor obligations, and work related appointments (club fittings, financial duties etc)....and I bet Duval still managed to work at his "job" now and then even though he did not compete for seven months...

I am terribly jaded on pro sports, but I can not even begin to wrap my brain around where you are coming from on this issue with Duval....you call him washed up, a loser, a greedy person ("since cashing in") a sissy ("hire a nurse...like any other man") and vain (substituting true glory for false appreciation)...

Yet you claim you have nothing against Duval?  You are one screwed up person....

[Gib_Papazian]

Barny,

You going to give Mickelson some love for dueling Payne Stewart down the stretch at Pinehurst? As long as we are paying respect to pampered Tour wives about to pop a new marital insurance policy . . . .

Rhic,

I think, reading your post, that we agree. As my deep south friend Sonny Casca loves to say: "Son, if you lookin' for an argument, you gonna have to change the subject."

That stated, I still don't care anymore which pampered PROphylactic gets in the field and which one has to get a real job like the rest of us. Again, there was a time when I harbored the hallucination that pro golf was more honorable than other sports.

Now, by the time you get done deciphering who is exempt and for what reason, and then factor in the rules and regulations of that whole pre-packaged, canned entertainment FED EX mess, the whole fiasco is hopelessly devalued and not worth following.

[Paul Stephenson]

I have nothing against Duval.  I hate pro athletes who try to show the world they are better fathers than your typical working man when they skip work, sometimes for long periods of time, because they can afford to do so.  

I gotta give Tiger credit for being a man and playing the US Open when his wife was on the cusp of labor.  He did it because he knew he could win...If these other washed up glory seeking losers thought they could win they too would hire a nurse and be out there like any other man.  They are simply substituting true glory for false appreciation.

I suppose Tiger was wrong in knowing he could win.  He didn't.

If baby Woods had arrived on the final Sunday, what would we be saying now?  IMO a man puts family over seeking glory on a manicured lawn.

[John Kavanaugh]

Barny,

You going to give Mickelson some love for dueling Payne Stewart down the stretch at Pinehurst? As long as we are paying respect to pampered Tour wives about to pop a new marital insurance policy . . .

Gib,

The difference between Tiger and Mickelson on this issue is that Tiger kept his mouth shut about the situation.  Mickelson was out there on the stage pontificating about how great a father his is and how he was going home on the first buzz of a pager.

Craig,

I have nothing against Huck and have called him far worse.  I don't have any friends with weak backbones.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have nothing against Duval.  I hate pro athletes who try to show the world they are better fathers than your typical working man when they skip work, sometimes for long periods of time, because they can afford to do so.  

I gotta give Tiger credit for being a man and playing the US Open when his wife was on the cusp of labor.  He did it because he knew he could win...If these other washed up glory seeking losers thought they could win they too would hire a nurse and be out there like any other man.  They are simply substituting true glory for false appreciation.

I suppose Tiger was wrong in knowing he could win.  He didn't.

If baby Woods had arrived on the final Sunday, what would we be saying now?  IMO a man puts family over seeking glory on a manicured lawn.

Paul,

You don't raise kids by watching them exit the birth canal.  You raise kids by example.  Hopefully if Sam is ever having a child and her husband has a chance to change or alter the thing that is the very essence of his life she will be giving and in love with him enough to allow him to continue his quest over having her hand held everytime you have a bump in the road.  Tiger taught his daughter a valuable lesson that day.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have a very similar situation brewing right now.  i just got a call that they had to take my Mother-in-Law to the emergency room because she in unresponsive.  I have a 2pm tee time for a practice round for this weekends member/member.  Lucky for me the hospital is on the way to the course so I have time to make an appearance and still make my time.  Death could throw a wrinkle in my plans..but really...death is serious stuff.

[Paul Stephenson]

I have nothing against Duval.  I hate pro athletes who try to show the world they are better fathers than your typical working man when they skip work, sometimes for long periods of time, because they can afford to do so.  

I gotta give Tiger credit for being a man and playing the US Open when his wife was on the cusp of labor.  He did it because he knew he could win...If these other washed up glory seeking losers thought they could win they too would hire a nurse and be out there like any other man.  They are simply substituting true glory for false appreciation.

I suppose Tiger was wrong in knowing he could win.  He didn't.

If baby Woods had arrived on the final Sunday, what would we be saying now?  IMO a man puts family over seeking glory on a manicured lawn.

Paul,

You don't raise kids by watching them exit the birth canal.  You raise kids by example.  Hopefully if Sam is ever having a child and her husband has a chance to change or alter the thing that is the very essence of his life she will be giving and in love with him enough to allow him to continue his quest over having her hand held everytime you have a bump in the road.  Tiger taught his daughter a valuable lesson that day.

John,

I suppose.  But the other side of the coin is that hopefully Sam's husband can realize that his child is only born once.  It is setting an example when one day you may have to to tell your child you missed his/her birth due to a golf tournament.  One that you can play in again next year.  Sam was only born once.  Tiger will win at least one (probably more) US Opens.

I'm personally glad that Sam's first lesson wasn't that she was playing second fiddle to a golf tournament.  I don't believe that Tiger is that sort of person.  I would like to believe that he would have quietly bailed on the event and been there regardless of his score.

I'm sorry to hear about your Mother-in-Law.  I hope things turn around for the better.

[Craig Sweet]

John...
"You don't raise kids by watching them exit the birth canal.  You raise kids by example."

 Duval taught his kids a very, very valuable lesson when he decided to stay home and care for his family...

[A.G._Crockett]

I might add to all this grumpiness by contributing only this:

The Tour's job is to make money for the members.  

The decision to grant a new type of exemption was made by the Tour Policy Board, which consists in large part of players.  It may be cronyism, of course, but it MAY be that the players think that they will make more money with tournaments that include guys like Duval and Hart, rather than kids just out of college who can prove themselves elsewhere.  

Isn't that a marketing reality, and isn't that the American way?  Wouldn't ANY business do what they/it thought was in the best interests of the business?  That is the essence of a market economy; acting on the basis of self-interest, whether informed or just perceived.

So what is the controversy?

[John Kavanaugh]

Looks like my Mother-in-Law is going to make it so I am off to make my tee time.  Thanks for your prayers and concern through this difficult time.

[Craig Sweet]

A.G....or it may be that the members of the tour policy board figure they too may need such an exemption someday...or it may be they have had more than these two guys seek this type of exemption and felt the need to address it sooner rather than later?

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