[PThomas]

Pinehurst #2 has a cheeseburger under $25, mid-week twilight.

well done by the Newbie!

welcome Jeff

[Doug Spets]

Phil....

If you do play there...most every putt on the golf course falls towards the train tracks.

[Doug Ralston]

Easily best 'bang for the buck', Hidden Cove, Dale Hollow, Eagle Ridge; of the Kentucky State Park Signature Series.

Ok, it is $30 max weekends. But if courses of this quality were in Chicago, they would be $150.

And STILL the LEAST bang-fer-buck is every upscape exclusive Private. Count them bucks, divide by times played/year, and consider ONLY their value as golf course [as opposed to other 'social' values]. Most of you know this better than I.

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

And STILL the LEAST bang-fer-buck is every upscape exclusive Private. Count them bucks, divide by times played/year, and consider ONLY their value as golf course [as opposed to other 'social' values]. Most of you know this better than I.

Doug

Doug,

Was it this year or last that I invited you and your friend to join me at my upscale private club.  How many hours do you think I should work a day to be able to share something I have with someone I have never met?  You must secretly be a selfish or greedy person if you think that was a waste of my money or of little value to me.

[Doug Ralston]

John;

It was last year. And I doubt you think me ungrateful, as I have always called it a generous deed and one of my greatest golf experiences. Thank you again. I hope you can and do bring others thus.

John, the point I was making is that all the 'Most bang for the buck' suggestions were publics, and they are virtually always 'golf for fees' and not much else.

Victoria National is a 'palace' of golf socialization, where very much more than golf is included in the value. I am certain other upscale private courses are the same.

I was even implying that for those who can, these Private superexclusives probably offer MORE bang for the buck than any public, because of many non-golf aspects.

John, I do not regret the career path I took, and accept the lack of certain opportunities that come with it. Still, it must be nice to fly to Ballyneal, St Andrews, Bandon etc. I am glad such sites are there.

Enjoy;

Doug

[Tom Yost]

Apologies for not following directions with my previous post.

Submitted for your approval:
Papago Park Phoenix AZ  $16 to walk.

[Phil McDade]

Tom:

Is Papago Park the best of the Phoenix munis? I played Encanto a few years ago, and it was enjoyable if fairly mundane, with a nice view of downtown. I see one of the munis is a William F. Bell.

Is $16 a year-round rate? This chart is sort-of helpful, sort-of not:

http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/golfee.html

[Phil McDade]

Easily best 'bang for the buck', Hidden Cove, Dale Hollow, Eagle Ridge; of the Kentucky State Park Signature Series.

Ok, it is $30 max weekends. But if courses of this quality were in Chicago, they would be $150.

And STILL the LEAST bang-fer-buck is every upscape exclusive Private. Count them bucks, divide by times played/year, and consider ONLY their value as golf course [as opposed to other 'social' values]. Most of you know this better than I.

Doug

Doug:

I was waiting for the Kentucky returns...but surely you can find me something in the Bluegrass State with a peak rate of <$25.....I'm counting on you!

[Evan_Smith]

Here's one for you.  Belmont in Richmond Virginia.  Although it has some holes that aren't interesting, albeit only 2 or 3, it has a great pedigree.  May be the most difficult 1st hole I've played!

From their website:
"Belmont Golf Course, located in Henrico County, Virginia, features an 18-hole PGA Championship golf course. In 1949, the course was host to the PGA Championship won by Sam Snead. Belmont Golf Course, formerly the Hermitage Country Club, was designed in 1916 by Albert Warren Tillenghast, one of the best course architects of his time. The course was redesigned in 1927 by Donald Ross."

And for those that want to check that I'm not cheating on prices!!
http://www.co.henrico.va.us/rec/belmont/belmont_home.html

[Phil McDade]

Evan:

Great entry! And the price is right as well.....is the work of Tillie and Ross still evident in the course?

Sean: What more can you tell us about Rogell? The website promotes it as "vintage Ross." Is that the case?

Part of what is emerging in this discussion is that some relatively unknown courses by golden-age architects are great values because they have remained relatively  untouched and not improved in the way you describe. Wisconsin's Spring Valley certainly fits that bill; Rogell seems similar. With the tie-in to the temple, maybe it's Michigan's version of Laswonia -- no swearing on the course!! (And no beer in the clubhouse, natch...)

[Doug Spets]

Sean....

There's been quite a bit of work done at AGC in the last several years.  In the 80's and 90's as I understand it...the course was terribly neglected.  They had a wonderful summer growing grass...and spots that were previously pretty spotty are now very green.  The greens are common bermuda...so they get pretty grainy.  But the countours are incredible.  Plus...if the halfway house is closed, you can sneak thru the fence on 13 fairway and get to a Taco Bell.

[Evan_Smith]

Phil:

When I last played Belmont around 1997, (I went to school about an hour west of Richmond) I wasn't nearly as an acomplished architecture geek as I am now.     What I do remember from the course is that the Par 3's 13 and 18 looked a lot like Ross Holes and it seems some of the greens may have been redone over the years.  Word on the street at the time was that the front 9 was Tillinghast and the back 9 Ross.  I can easily see that being true although I've yet to play a Tillinghast course, I'm just going by photos of his work.  Like most old courses there has been a lot of changes over the years I'm sure, but Belmont is still worth the effort to see and play.  They also had a US Open qualifier there in the mid 1990's which I find strange since there is no range (one of the reasons the first hole is so tough!).  
The course is right off of US-1 (the first green is less than 20 feet from the highway) and it's only a 5-10 minute drive off of I-95 depending on traffic.

[Tom Yost]

Tom:

Is Papago Park the best of the Phoenix munis? I played Encanto a few years ago, and it was enjoyable if fairly mundane, with a nice view of downtown. I see one of the munis is a William F. Bell.

Is $16 a year-round rate?

OK, I'm busted.  $16 is the summer rate - it will go up for the winter.  I haven't been able to find anyone in the city that will tell me what the as yet unannounced winter rates will be, but I think it will stay under $25 to walk.

Encanto, oldest of the Phoenix muni's is a WP Bell built in the 50's.  Pretty much as you described it.

Papago and Maryvale are both WF Bell and both from the 60's.  Maryvale is a flat, tree-lined parkland style course, nothing special but pleasant enough and is a nice break from desert target golf.

Cave Creek came along in the 80's, a Jack Snyder design that was built on top of a former landfill.  An interesting course that sports the city's only (I think) triple green.  I have not been out to Cave Creek since the 80's and would like to see how it has matured.

Aguila is the newest Phoenix muni, a Gary Panks designed desert course that opened in 1999.  I have not played it.

Papago is certainly my favorite with fairways that pitch and roll with the natural contours of the site and scenic views of the city and the nearby Papago Buttes.  They keep talking about a new clubhouse, but I hope they renovate and keep the oddly unique and funky 60's style building that for me, seems to fit with the surroundings perfectly.

Like many municipally operated golf courses, Phoenix's seem to suffer from underfunded maintenance budgets.  But what do you want for $16?

Tom

[Bart Bradley]

Ok, so this maybe somewhat personal but...

I learned to play golf on Peru Municipal Golf Course in Peru, IN.  I started playing on my summer vacation with my grandmother as a small boy when I visited her from Ft. Wayne.  The course is still fun and has some very good holes.  It turns out that my father and uncle worked on the grounds crew when they were in high school.  I took my own son, now 12, there last summer from TN when we were back in Indiana for a Notre Dame game.  According to their website 18 holes walking peaks out at $18.  What a bargain.  Now, I would add pictures from their website to make my case but I cannot figure out how to add pics to my posts...I know, it sounds stupid...can someone help me out.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm hoping to play Papago Christmas week.  

Tom...your description has me excited to see it.

[Steve Lapper]

Just finished 18 at Escena in Palm Springs, Ca for just $20!! What a deal!!! This year-old Nicklaus, nearby the  PS Airport, is a wonderful way-above average design that was originally intended to anchor a now-defunct residential community.

There are a handful of very well-designed holes that traverse the property and set up nicely with the strong prevalent hot winds that sweep this area daily. Jack used cross &pot of non-Nicklaus style undulating green surfaces. Nice strategic thought seems to be prevalent throughout 14-16 holes.

In an odd twist, there is a very cool modernist and architectually interesting clubhouse nearly complete that sits just barely unfinished and empty and unused. Neat project that will eventually find itself absorbed into the better rota of Desert golf. Lennar just bailed on building out the residential component, but has left a perfectly wonderful and wildly cheap golf course for the rest of us. It's well worth a visit!

[Mike_Cirba]

C'mon Lapper...get back to the east coast so we can play some golf before the frost is on the pumpkin.  

[Phil McDade]

mmbradley:

Thanks for the info. on Peru -- it looks to have a very interesting mix of par 4s, with yardage ranging from 425 to 262. The course also looks like it hosts the local high school golf teams, which automatically raises it a notch in my book on good-deed grounds. It dates back to pre-Depression, for the original nine, and at $18 it's well under the required cost line. Good work!

[Tom Yost]

I'm hoping to play Papago Christmas week.  

Tom...your description has me excited to see it.

Mike, I'm not sure if you are teasing me or maybe you are just a fan of economical prose, because my description was seriously sparse     I'm not much of a reviewer, more of a "I don't know art, but I know what I like" sort of guy.  

One other thing I didn't mention, the Papago snack bar does have some pretty good french fried potaters.

If you want to meet up for a game during your visit, please drop me a line!

Tom

[David Stamm]

I'll second Ed's comments on RC. Relative to So Cal (or ALL of Cal for that matter) it's a bargain. Soule Park is $20 twilight I believe and is damn good. I think this is a pretty good bargain, if you can get a time.

http://www.golfcoronado.com/

[Dale_McCallon]

Evan,

I like your pick of Belmont.  If I'm not mistaken Geoff S actually picked this course as a course that would be most deserving of USGA dollars a la Bethpage to bring back to life.

I know the course hosted a PGA back in the 40s won by Virginias favorite son, Sam Snead.

I've played there 2-3 times and the course truly has some outstanding holes despite some very shoddy conditions.  Unfortunately the first has really lost its teeth.  The original green that used to sit behind the canal is gone.  I was told it flooded so often that the city gave up on it.  Now it is just a flat round green sitting in front of the canal.  Turning a formerly great par 4 into a dull pitch and putt hole.  

Personally my favorite hole is 5.  A wonderful sweeping dogleg right with an uphill approach to the green.  The ditch 80-90 short of the green is definitely in play for those who miss the fairway.

All in all though, you might have a winner for best bang for buck--particularly in a larger area.

[Kalen Braley]

Nearly 5 years later...it'd be interesting to see what still qualifies.

If we allow for $30 and under, (inflation adjustment)...i still submit Indian Canyon can not be beat at $29. This is the absolute peak fee....twilights, specials, off-season, etc are all less than $29.

Designed by Chandler Egan, its an absolute gem with awesome contouring on fairways and greens!

[Phil McDade]

Kalen:

Do I have you on a technicality? This: http://spokanegolf.org/Golf/page/346/ suggests that in addition to the $29 green fee, golfers have to pay a 5% City of Spokane "admissions tax," which puts the round at $30.45.

I'd note the course leading off this thread has somehow -- perhaps due to the lousy economy here in the nation's Dairyland -- lowered its rates from 1997 -- now a buck a hole to walk any day of the week: http://springvalleyccgolf.com/Rates.aspx

[Kalen Braley]

That would be super nit picky...off by $.45 is not the same as being off by $10.

Anyhow, I would put Indian Canyon up against Spring Valley any day of the week as the better course.  For number 1, it has real elevation changes and contouring, and it also doesn't have any cheezy ponds!.  Just sayin'  

P.S.  And is it just an old aerial, but does the course really not have 1 bunker on it?

[Phil McDade]

That would be super nit picky...off by $.45 is not the same as being off by $10.

Anyhow, I would put Indian Canyon up against Spring Valley any day of the week as the better course.  For number 1, it has real elevation changes and contouring, and it also doesn't have any cheezy ponds!.  Just sayin'  

P.S.  And is it just an old aerial, but does the course really not have 1 bunker on it?

Kalen:

I forgot my smiley winking emoticon after highlighting the round's cost at 45 cents above the threshold!

Spring Valley does indeed lack bunkers -- Langford designed the course with the intent to have them, but financial difficulties left them undone. His well-known mounds dot the course.

I don't think, from the pictures I've seen, that SV has the kind of elevation changes of IC. But it's set on nice, rolling terrain; I'm playing there soon and hope to come back with some pictures. It's a solid course.

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