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Jay Flemma

I got three words for ya...Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« on: October 01, 2007, 01:10:13 PM »
Guys, after playing Morgan Hill and Lederach this wkd, I am even more enamored with Kelly's excellent par-5s, center line hazards, fiendish green complexes and undulating fairways.   I think he's a rising star who just needs a break at a great piece of property because he did a terrific job shoehoring to excellent course over tough plots of land.

If he's that good with difficult parcels think how great he'll be if he gets some site like say a Jim Engh.

Did you all know he's restoring Rock Spring - an old Raytnor course in West Orange, NJ?  This is huge news and a great break for him.

Quick hits:

I think Lederach basically explores more deeply the ideas he showcased at Morgan.

He's affordable!  We have two really nice $50 courses within an easy drive of NYC, DC, baltimore, even Syracuse.  Play him now while we still have him at the same stature as Doak was when he did High Pointe and Black Forest.  We all love a good deal.  Hey!  Huckaby!  You love courses like rustic...might you not like Lederach?  Cheap, walkable, interesting and not overcrowded...

He builds terrific par-5s and promotes all the ideas that originated across the pond and were further explored by CB, Seth and other golden age greats...


He's a colorful Texan!  What's not to like?

Would anybody like to organize a meetup at lederach?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 06:24:08 PM by Jay Flemma »

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 01:19:46 PM »

I haven't had the chance to see any of Kelly's stuff living in Oklahoma, but I sure do miss his participation here at GCA.


corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 01:22:43 PM »


Kelly has a lot of information about the Rock Spring project on his website.  I think Rock Spring will be getting it right this time if they follow through.

Essex County, just down the road, went with Bahto just a few years ago, Rock Spring with Ken Dye.  All I will say is that ECCC still has a relationship with Bahto, Rock Spring has hired Mr. Moran.

Jay Flemma

Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 02:14:35 PM »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 02:29:14 PM »
Kelly is one of most honest and straight talking guys in the business. Just a pity he always loses at golf...

Anyone who has a chance to employee should jump at the chance especially if you have a project near him.

I would love to see him and his wife get a huge project where they could do the golf course as well as all the landscape architecture for the project as they both seem to be very talented.

Kelly I know you are reading this, give my regards to the real boss and to your kids.  Keep practicing and one day you might beat me....   ;)
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 02:40:41 PM »
I am wondering how Kelly compares to John Harbottle who is carving out a niche in the PNW.
Anyone play courses by both of these architects?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 03:11:48 PM »
Although we didn't have a chance to play together, I did enjoy a very fun day at Muirfield in late March with Kelly and some other guys.  He is an entertaining guy.  Apparently he has done some work with Randy Thompson in South America.  I'd love to play his east coast courses, need to get up there next summer.

grandwazo

Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2007, 03:12:56 PM »
I will also attest to Kelly's vision, capability and character.  Long story short, he was the victim of a textbook example of what can go wrong at a private club whose membership really doesn't deserve working with a qualified architect who really would respect their best interests if truly given the opportunity to do so.

We had the complete cast of characters....

1. the "old school" member who had previously been green chairman since time immemorial and because of his membership at **** and his involvement there had reworked our non-descript alfred tull layout in to something that had more flower beds per yard than strategic elements.  Every change Kelly suggested was taken as a personal affront and this member would take every opportunity to undermine Kelly to anyone who would listen including a sister club in the area who mysteriously cancelled an interview with Kelly after speaking with him.

2. the club president who would not allow the green committee to make a single decision without his oversight and control and ended up causing over two thirds of the allocated budget to be spent on an irrigation system for a golf course that will never be built.

3. a board that was so focused on a new men's locker room construction project being undertaken at the same time, that as the golf course renovation project fell apart they allowed the club president to "blame" Kelly for the failure instead of asking what really happened.

4. the "new" president who inherited the project and the four holes that had been completed and had to answer to the membership with regards to what happened to the $500K that was supposed to be left over to continue to project this year.

5. the green superintendent whose job was already on the line before the project began and found it easier to blame Kelly for work he could not handle than to look in the mirror.

I could go on and on, but I wonder how many times this scenario has played out in private clubs across the country?

Kelly, whose only fault was trying to accomodate all the parties involved in the hopes of getting the project completed ended up not getting paid in full and having his good name questioned on the north shore of long island.  

What should have been a project that would have really put him on the map instead is now one that he has to explain as to what what wrong instead of what went right.

Personally, I am embarrassed by how he was treated by my club, and I have offered to provide a reference should his work at my club ever be brought up in a negative way in the future.

He's a great golf course architect, and even more importantly, a great guy.  The four holes he did complete are pretty damn good, certainly better than what was there before.

p.s.  In case you are wondering, I'm #6...the green chairman who quit because he simply could not take the BS going on and did not want to be the one who would get blamed when the project eventually would come in over budget and under done.  

I got blamed anyway, but I still have my self respect.  I could not be a party to what I saw coming.  

I posted Kelly's original drawings on the project on GCA, can't seem to find them now, but if I can, I will add them later....

John Shimp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 03:18:22 PM »
I played Laurel Links for the first time this past Friday.  I found it to be a lot of fun, but very difficult off the tee.  Many holes required flying hazards to find the best, widest spot in the fairway.  A prime example of this is the number 1 hdcp 7th hole.  Aim to the left of the fairway bunkers and you run out of real estate fast as the fairway curves off to the left.  Greens were a real treat as well.  Precise approachs and chips needed to score well.  

Laurel is a course where local knowledge counts for a lot.  Going out without a caddie for the first time could lead to a frustrating experience.  Fortunatley our caddies were excellent.  

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007, 03:56:34 PM »
Brian,
You must be a great golfer because I witnessed one of the greatest shot in golf by Kelly or was it luck you decide! We were checking out La Srrena as it was nearing completion and decided to play nine. I don't think he can beat anybody in golf in the USA and that why he loved to come to South America and play against me. We finished the last hole tied and it was ninety percent dark and we finished tied. He insisited we go onto hole number ten, which we did and we tied again, on to number eleven at his insistence in the dark...tied again. The car was at the maintenance facility which is by ten green. I said, lets go, I will buy thre champagn even though we tied, no no no way was the response. So we played from the rough in front of green eleven and went backwards to green number ten. No idea what the yardage was but around 450 I imagine and in the pitch black dark, we both hit good drives to the middle of the fairway and then we both hit three woods to the general vicinity of ten green. We couldn't find either ball and he insisted we return in the morning and look and finish the hole. As we were leaving he passed in front of the cup and low and behold, there lied his ball in the cup for an eagle two and more importantly the VICTORY.
 I know firsthand everything being said about the boy is true. When will he get his break and get a property that warrants his service and shoot him to the stardom he deserves? My answer to this is, When a developers has enough confidence in his own marketing plan and knows that a great golf course is all he needs to be successful.

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2007, 04:36:53 PM »
Kelly was one of my favorite contributors on this website. Since the birth of my son I haven't had the chance to play much golf, but Lederach is high on my list of want-to-plays.

-Ted

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2007, 05:13:14 PM »



Front left in red.

Kelly has style.  Do you know anyone else who dresses for lunch at Muirfield in Jacket, Tie and Cowboy Boots?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 05:13:44 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2007, 05:21:42 PM »
Jay,

Hawk Pointe in NJ,now private, is another course worthy of consideration. Although I haven't played there, Ron Whitten's review on KBM's website says a lot:

www.kellyblakemoran.com/article.html

The new course in Bucks County- Heritage Creek- probably won't open until 2009.

A return Philly GCA Outing to Lederach is possible. Last year's visit even attracted Mike Sweeney among many others !!!

Steve

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2007, 05:22:56 PM »
I like the new title of the thread. Could Dr. Katz please explain to me, in layman's terms, what reasons one might possibly do this?

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jay Flemma

Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2007, 05:25:30 PM »
Holy cow look at that picture!  You guys look as rough and tumble as the "Reservoir Dogs!"

From what I have seen, I think we are looking at a rising star...I see similarities between Engh and Doak.  Engh in style by the use of serious, severe undulation - more in play in Kelly's, but also a different style of bumpy bunkers.  Engh has the muscle bunkers but the huge center dunes Kelly builds also look EXACTLY like some of the bunkering at Engh's BLACKSTONE in AZ.  plus they both build amazing par-5s.  I think not only is it a strength of Kelly, but he is one of the best around right now and only going to get better as he further refines his chops.

I think he's like Doak in that he espouses alot of what Doak champions - undulating fairways.  Hurly burly green contours.  Dont dig up too much earth...

by the way, how much earth was moved at Lederach?  at Morgan?

Ah!  I just found the # for Lederach - 140,000.  Good number!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 05:36:04 PM by Jay Flemma »

John Kavanaugh

Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2007, 05:26:11 PM »



Front left in red.

Kelly has style.  Do you know anyone else who dresses for lunch at Muirfield in Jacket, Tie and Cowboy Boots?

I can't believe Kelly carries his man bag under his arm pit and around his neck to make it more difficult to steal.  What's he got in there so valuable...his lunch?  The boy needs to get out and walk a site or two.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2007, 05:31:09 PM »



This picture is just begging for a caption contest.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

wsmorrison

Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2007, 05:31:41 PM »
John,

As it looks like they are walking a site, it could be a camera bag or any number of other reasonable possibilities.  Easy now, big fella.

Mike Erdmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Kelly Blake Moran carving a great niche
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2007, 05:31:58 PM »
I am wondering how Kelly compares to John Harbottle who is carving out a niche in the PNW.
Anyone play courses by both of these architects?


Pretty different styles, really.  While I've only played KBM's Morgan Hill, I found it to contain lots of classical-influenced strategy and bunkering...plenty of center-line bunkering and quite Raynoresque in places.  I haven't found Harbottle's work to be nearly as bold.

John Kavanaugh

Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2007, 05:34:21 PM »
John,

As it looks like they are walking a site, it could be a camera bag or any number of other reasonable possibilities.  Easy now, big fella.

Kelly hasn't emailed me in a while.  I thought I would fish him out with the man bag comment.  I always thought he was taller too.

Jay Flemma

Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2007, 05:38:24 PM »
ANAKIN SKYWALKER:  ...General Greivous...you're shorter than I expected.

You're right...that is begging for a caption contest.

grandwazo


Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2007, 05:45:46 PM »
John,

As it looks like they are walking a site, it could be a camera bag or any number of other reasonable possibilities.  Easy now, big fella.

I'll vouch for the Camera Bag.

I first clapped eyes on a red-jacketed guy taking a VERY close-up photo of the March Stone on the 11th Tee at TOC.

I thought to myself - and then uttered: "Gotta be a golf course architect".

It was one KBM.

We proceeded to partake of a fine wander around TOC together before having our minds collectively boggled by The Castle Course... ;D

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2007, 06:00:44 PM »
Is that KBM or Jerry Seinfeld?
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Jay Flemma

Re:I got three words for ya! Kelly! Blake! Moran!
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2007, 06:22:33 PM »
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19447;start=msg345025#msg345025

Here's a look at what could have been....

Man, you are breakin' my heart.  Look at some of those diagonals...

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