Which Pennsylvania GAP member course?

[Mike_Cirba]

- Has two par fives in the first 4 holes, both with a creek crossing?

- Has a par three in a quarry, followed by a hole where the drive must cross the quarry for a reasonable second?

- Has an Alps-type hole where BOTH the drive AND the approach are completely blind, playing steeply uphill to a punchbowl green?

- Has a number one handicap hole where there is a six foot elevation change from the front of the green to the back?

- Was designed and built during the Golden Age?

- Maxes out at just over 6600 yards from the tips?

- Has at least 10 holes that turn or dogleg so significantly that the green is not visible from the tee?

- Has a par three of 116 yards from the tips?

- Has greens as small as 19 paces front to back and as large as 38 paces front to back?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Twining Valley?

[Mike_Cirba]

Steve,

Nope, but that's a really good guess now that I think about it.   This course was built a few years prior and is a bit north of there.

[Mark_Fine]

Hopefully one that won't get changed tooooo much when it hosts a "big" event in a few years!  

[Mike_Cirba]

Hopefully one that won't get changed tooooo much when it hosts a "big" event in a few years!  

Mark, Mark, Mark...

You need to read more carefully...  

Of anyone here, you should have aced this exam.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
I must be tired because looking quickly through your clues I would have suggested Merion.
Mark

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,
I must be tired because looking quickly through your clues I would have suggested Merion.
Mark

Mark,

After your day, you're excused from class tonight...

But, like a Catholic School nun, I expect a much better answer in the morning!  

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
Just jumped back on this site.  The "Alps-type" hole has me thinking but the other clues could very well match up with Merion.  If not, then I need to clear my mind and get some sleep.  It has been a long couple days but quite productive ones.
Take care,
Mark

[mark chalfant]

Mike
sounds  a lot like Saucon   Weyhill,  a cool course that   I like a lot.. but   weyhill dates from   c.1967,  so I am not sure

[mark chalfant]

is it  Wllie Parks  Berkshire   near reading ??

[Kyle Harris]

Apart from the first clue - that's Manufacturers'

[Mike_Cirba]

Mark,

It's not Saucon Weyhill, nor is it Berkshire, neither of which I've played sadly.

Kyle,

Nope...not Mannies but definitely had some similarities.


Two clues;

1) The "Alps" hole I described earlier is the 6th hole.   It's less than 350 yards, but the drive is blind across a creek and over a ridge, and then once you reach the fairway you find the green up on a hillside to your left.   The green sits in a bowl and from position A, neither the flagstick or the surface is visible.

2) The architect was responsible for about 8 or so courses in eastern PA, most of which are right near Lulu and Manufacturers.

[wsmorrison]

Mike,

Is the architect J. Franklin Meehan?  A shame he was not included in "The Architects of Golf."

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne,

The very same.

Now, you all just need to name the course.  

[wsmorrison]

Well, it isn't North Hills, Ashbourne, Sandy Run, Spring Ford or Meadia Heights (that's a Meehan, right?).  I don't know any others.  I am stumped.

[Dan Boerger]

I'm stumped as well ... not North Hills, not Overbrook, not Whitemarsh ... inquiring minds want to know!

[JESII]

It's a goofy, fantasy, cross-country type, best holes in Philly deal this guy must have drawn up on the back of a whiskey stained napkin late one night/early one morning...somehow Mike stumbled into it on EBAY and is hoping to drive up its resell value with the lunatics on here...

[Jason Mandel]

SANDY RUN!!!

[Kyle Harris]

Definitely not Sandy Run. North Hill isn't north of Twining Valley.

[Jason Mandel]

Ok, sandy run was a horrible guess...

but the answer is

Brookside of Allentown!

what is my prize mike?

I've never played there, but incidentally Mike Trenham played a GAP match there this year and said its a pretty solid course...

[Mike_Cirba]

Well...it ain't...

Ashbourne
Sandy Run
North Hills
it ain't the original 9 holes at Lulu he also designed
nor
Paxon Hollow, or
Schuylkill, where he was minimally involved with the construction of the first nine holes
it's not Spring-Ford
or the first nine of Berwick Golf Club, (GAP associate member)
or even the nine holes he built up in Ellenville, NY that is now NLE.

[Mike_Cirba]

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!!!  

Mr. Mandel correctly identified Brookside Country Club (of Allentown).

And, Mr. Trenham is correct as well that it's quite the solid course...one I'd never heard much from previously.

As far as the prize, sometimes it's just good to know you were right Jason.  

Now...where is Mark Fine because this course is right in his neighborhood!  

[peter_mcknight]

Mr Chalfant...

Weyhill opened for play in 1968.  At that time, it was 6968 yards par 72.  Under the current hole alignment, it opens 4 3 4 4 on the first four holes.  The current alignment opens on the original 11th hole and finishes on the original 8th.  I believe this occurred because the Weyhill clubhouse has been turned into some sort of b/b with 13 rooms available for members and guests, so the maintenance barn and house between original hole 1 8 and 11 must be the "clubhouse" facility.

Weyhill could have so, so much better given the amazing land on which it resides.  Give me a year to improve it and it could become near all world.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
Just saw Brookside mentioned.  I don't get out there much but that is the course thinking through the clues.  I still think Merion was a close second  

Has two par fives in the first 4 holes, both with a creek crossing? Merion does

- Has a par three in a quarry, followed by a hole where the drive must cross the quarry for a reasonable second? Merion does

- Has an Alps-type hole where BOTH the drive AND the approach are completely blind, playing steeply uphill to a punchbowl green?  This one disqualifies it.

- Has a number one handicap hole where there is a six foot elevation change from the front of the green to the back?  Merion's #5 is #1 handicap and side to side the elevation change is steep.

- Was designed and built during the Golden Age? Merion was

- Maxes out at just over 6600 yards from the tips?  Who knows what the back tee yardage is at Merion these days.  It keeps changing.  

- Has at least 10 holes that turn or dogleg so significantly that the green is not visible from the tee?  Didn't think it through too closely but it might be right.  

- Has a par three of 116 yards from the tips?
Merion's #13 is more like 125 yards but it's close.

- Has greens as small as 19 paces front to back and as large as 38 paces front to back?
Possible

[JESII]

So what you're saying is you took the hook, the line and the sinker all in one swallow...