U.S. Mid-Am at Bandon Dunes

[Eric Johnson]

Tim Mickelson is the first quarterfinalist. If he wins out, would it be the first brother combo at ANGC since the Heberts.

Mickelson just chipped in for eagle on 18 to win 1UP in his afternoon match.

[JohnV]

I was the referee for the Nathan Smith / Tim Mickelson match this afternoon.

It was a great match.

Nathan won holes 1, 3 and 6 to take a 3 up lead with a par on 1 and birdies on the others.  Mickelson came back to win 7, 8 and 9 to square the match at the turn with three pars.

Smith birdied 10
Mickelson birdied 11
Smith bogeyed 12
Smith birdied 13
they both parred 14
Smith bogeyed 15
Mickelson bogeyed 16
they both parred 17

Both hit good drives on 18.  Smith hit first and put the ball in front bunker (the hole was directly behind it.)

Mickelson pushed his shot to the right.  It landed inside the hazard line to the right and bounced out.

Smith was away and blasted out to about 6 feet behind the hole.  Mickelson had to flop the ball over the second bunker.  It landed very softly and trickled into the hole.  If it hadn't gone in, it would have gone about 1 foot past.

Mickelson also eagled 18 in the morning with a 6-iron from 225 yards to 5 feet to square his match with Arnie Cutrell (another western PA player) and then won on the 19th hole.

They played in 3:26 with was 34 minutes under the 4-hour pace of play established by the USGA.

[Tom Jefferson]

"Wednesday Morning 5:00 AM"................showers right now, with forecasted spotty showers today, for the quarters and semis.

Tom

[JESII]

They played in 3:26 with was 34 minutes under the 4-hour pace of play established by the USGA.

4 hours time par for twosomes playing match play...JVB, please tell me this is a misprint...

[Steve Kline]

It is not. Tim and I waited constantly in our match. We were behind Zahringer and Smith. We asked what the time alloted for them was and our observer said 4 hours. Tim and I could have easily finished in 3 hours.

[George Pazin]

Is the time par ever less than 4 hours?

Honest question, no sarcasm intended.

[JESII]

George,

I don't know, but I doubt it based on it being 4 hours in this setting.

About 10 years ago I was in the final group in our State Amateur and waited on every shot in the morning round. The group in front was at least two holes behind (twosomes). At the scoring table I asked about it and they said time par was 4 hours then also.

[JohnV]

Is the time par ever less than 4 hours?

Honest question, no sarcasm intended.

Yes.  Usually for match play it is around 3:40 to 3:45.  This year there are some longer walks like 1-2, 3-4, 6-7, 8-9, 12-13 and 14-15 so that added time.

It probably could have been set lower.  The first day, only one match (mine) was over time through 7 holes and we were only 2 minutes over even though there was one very slow player.

[JohnV]

For those who are interested, the complete set of course stats from the stroke play rounds can be found at:

http://www.usmidam.org/scoring/coursestats.html

They have both Dunes and Trails stats up there now.  #12 at Dunes was the toughest hole overall with #2 at Trails being second.  Given the winds on Sunday that is no surprise.  #14 at Trails was 8th hardest at Trails.  The 6 guys I walked with has 4 pars, a bogey and an 8 (four chips from behind the green to get it on.)

Overall scoring was 2+ shots higher in the second round than the first on both courses  and that was with a lot of the field finishing the second round on Monday morning in perfect conditions.

The second group I walked with on Sunday started on #11 on Trails and nobody could get near the green in 2.  #7 at Trails was equally as hard with nobody in either of my groups reaching the green.

The easiest hole at Trails was #5.  The hole was right on the front of the green which didn't make it that accessible when the wind was right behind at about 20 MPH.   The easiest at Dunes was #18.

[Tom Yost]

Last evening's Golf Central program on TGC had a short segment on some of the college coaches competing in the Men's and Women's (also this week at Desert Forest in AZ) Mid Ams. Featured were Mickleson (Univ of San Diego), Missy Farr-Kaye (AZ State assistant) and Meghan Bolger (former Univ of Mississippi head coach).

I was watching to see if they might show some views of the courses but no.

Some good pics in the photo gallery:
http://www.usmidam.org/news/gallery.html

[TEPaul]

Every single competitor I know, even if remotely, has been knocked out with the single exception of Kuehne. And that damn Tim Mickelson took out two Western Pennsylvania guys I know one right after the other---so for that I hope he loses today.  

BUMMER.

Go Kuehne. You were a real hero in the cleanup spot in the last day in the Walker Cup at Ganton in 2003 on the 14th hole when you drove the green with one of the cooler shots I ever saw and because of that I told everyone anywhere near me you were going to bring it home and win the Cup for the good ole US of A. But then you did me in by screwing up the 15th. You had that little skinny cat Tiger Woods in the bag too down at TPC Sawgrass in the 1994 US Amateur final and you let him out of the bag.

But this week at Bandon You Da Man!

[BCrosby]

I've always had mild misgivings about college golf coaches in mid-am events.

They aren't - strictly speaking - pros. But they are paid to spend their working hours on or at golf courses.

They are, like the college golfers the mid-am is supposed to weed out, essentially full time players.

Bob

[JohnV]

Bob, do we also take out superintendents or anyone else who works at a golf course?

Before long we descend the slippery slope towards Francis Ouimet being declared a pro for working in a sporting goods store that sold golf equipment.

I don't want to get into the entire argument about this as we've had it enough times before, including this week at the Mid-Am where some officials are very opposed to reinstatement and others aren't.

I'd be surprised it Tim M plays any more golf than the two guys he eliminated yesterday (at least once you've taken into account the better weather in San Diego vs Pittsburgh.)

[Kyle Henderson]

Excellent thread. Thanks for all of your outstanding input, Steve.

Is BT much more sheltered from the wind than BD? I assume wind affects the difficulty of BT more, given its tighter nature off of the tee, correct?

My craving for the place is overwhelming. I really need to see the place first hand ASAP. I'll start saving my pennies.

Anybody planning to head up there in late March, maybe?

[JohnV]

Kyle,

While Trails is more sheltered, the wind really whipped around it.  I was amazed how 7 and 11 were both into the wind on Sunday when they are at almost a 90 angle to each other.  Also, the elevation of tees like 1, 2 and 14 played havoc.  The only tee that are really elevated at Bandon Dunes are 3 and 8.  Dunes has more room and less trouble around it.  The scores were pretty similar at the two courses.  Dunes scores did go up more in the second round when the wind came up (76.4 to 79.8 for Dunes vs 77.1 to 79.7 for Trails.)

[BCrosby]

JVB -

I appreciate the slippery slope issues. But I wonder if a line at golf coaches ought to be drawn.

Supers just happen to work at golf courses. The ones I know have little time to actually play.

The golf coaches I know play regularly with their teams on all but tournament days, and even then they sometimes give times to the coaches.

Not a big issue. But the frequency with which coaches are showing up in late rounds of big mid-am tournies suggests that they are uniquely well prepared for these events.

Bob

[Steve Kline]

John - you've got to admit being a college coach is different than being a super intendent. A college coach could play every day with his team and practice with them every day if he wanted - especially the assts - I would think. I'm not saying they do though. Plus, I played with the asst. at Ok. St. in the practice round and his summer consisted of playing amatuer tournaments around the country recruiting. Plus he played on the PGA Tour one year and some other smaller tours as well. A superintendent works 5-6 days a week managing a golf course and rarely plays - at least the ones I know.

One of my playing partners the first two days, Jarret Grimes, was a former pro and was playing in his first Mid-Am because he just got his status back.

I'm not complaining one bit about any of these guys being in the field, but you have to admit they are a totally different breed than someone like me who played two years of college golf and never played professionally at any level, any time, any where.

[Steve Kline]

BCrosby - and it seems that more and more of them are guys who turned pro but couldn't make it after five years or so.

[JohnV]

Bob,

Every rule in every sport is some kind of line drawn in the sand.  Does the college coach have more opportunity to play than a Gary Wolstenholme who is a marketing director for a golf course?  Given his  notoriety he is probably in demand to be out playing with clients almost every day.

You can decide you want the line drawn somewhere.  I can think it should be somewhere else.  Some day one of us might end up on the USGA's Amateur Status committee and make our arguments.  If we convince enough people we can get a rules change made.

Personally, I am probably on the more liberal side of these things than most people.  I think that as long as you aren't playing for money you can be an amateur.  If a professional golf teacher opts not to play for cash in PGA section events or the like he should even be considered one.  But that's just me.

[Steve Kline]

The first 2 or 3 holes and the last 5 holes at BT are not sheltered. They are in the dunes. 9 and 10 are the most sheltered holes, but the wind is still blowing above the trees and as John somewhat indicated the winds still blow on those holes and can swirl pretty good on the sheltered holes.

[JohnV]

In looking at the stats, only 1 person birdied #12 at Bandon Dunes in two days and only 2 birdied #7 at Bandon Trails.

[JESII]

Not coincidentally, these "assistant coaches" were very good player before taking the job...most that I know of spent some time as professionals and are now back working for a living...I agree that they are able to play a ton of golf as compared to the "typical" working amatuer, but that's a tough point to nail down. Should we have limits on how much we can play?

[BCrosby]

JES -

I guess I agree. The slippery slope issues are hard to deal with.

Still....., there is something about their participation that rubs against the whole point of the "Mid-Am" concept. But maybe there is no fair way to limit the field other than simply by age.

Bob

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

There is no question a college coach can play and or practice most days. Buddy Alexander, ex LSU and current Florida coach won the US AM while a college coach.

[JESII]

The flexibility to play tons of golf as an amateur can be part of any successful career, it's just a fact.

On the flip side, if given a vote, I would probably vote in favor of changing the reinstatement rules to something much stricter...even banning reinstatements under any circumstances...

But someone that chooses to coach college golf, and is successful at it (like Alexander at UF) is still working hard at their day job. To be honest, if I were around a golf course all day and watching other guys play, I think getting away from it might be high on my list after the work day is finished.