Scotland Ideas near Edinburgh?

[THuckaby2]

OK, this is very specific, but I am trolling for ideas on how best to fill a hole in the schedule for a trip I shall be doing next summer (2003) to the Auld Sod.  The particulars are this is a trip with 12 college buddies, only a few of which have any clue whatsoever about architecture, and I was given the mandate that this time we play THE BIG NAMES.  I took them a few years ago to some hidden gems and that was great but nope, this time it's the biggies only.  We have 8 days for the trip, we are doing only the Edinburgh and Troon areas, so don't suggest anything outside there - no Cruden Bay, no Dornoch for sure (been there before, don't have the travel time for this short trip).  I'd also kill to see Machrihanish, for example, and may extend the trip personally so I can, but that's not what I'm looking for here.  The basic itin is cast in stone and what I want is suggestions for a course to play THE DAY OF ARRIVAL, somewhere near Edinburgh.  Oh yes, we always play the day of arrival - jet lag is overcome by adrenaline.  The itin is as follows:

SAT      19      ________________      
SUN      20      Carnoustie @0900
              Kingsbarns @1500
MON      21      Old Course  am
            New Course pm
TUE      22      Muirfield x 36 9:30
WED      23      Gullane @ 0900
            North Berwick @1500
THU      24      Troon x 36 (Old and Portland)
FRI      25      Prestwick (2nd 18 optional)
SAT       26          Turnberry Ailsa (Kintyre optional)
Sun        27          Home

So any ideas for that first afternoon?  I don't want to force Mr. Goodale to host 12 of my friends, so Aberdour is out... I was thinking Crail Balcomie... any other ideas?  Remember, these guys are gonna want a seaside links and a name with which they can impress their home members.  

Whaddya think?

TH

ps - I now it sounds odd to discuss a 2003 trip now, but believe me, the big names like this book up this far in advance.  We were VERY lucky to get Muirfield and TOC and the rest of the trip falls around those.

[JSlonis]

Tom,

Are you planning the trip on your own or through a travel company? I am starting to plan a trip for next summer as well, and could use some advice.  Plans to visit this year fell through, so... on to 2003. What month of the summer is best to travel?

Thanks for any info!

Jamie

[John_Conley]

Hucks:

With the rest of what you have lined up, does it really matter?  You are playing a lot of great courses and won't be able to fill-in with another Muirfield, Gullane, or North Berwick.

I don't think you can go wrong.  Wish I were one of your college buddies!

[Scott_Burroughs]

I guess Gil Hanse's Craighead Links in Crail isn't a big enough name (see GCA write-up).

Eden and Jubilee aren't on your itinerary and both are next to the sea.

What about that new hotsy-totsy resort, St. Andrew Bay Resort?  A 50 million Pound (money, not weight) resort should impress your buddies.  Here's the web site:

http://www.standrewsbay.com

[Dan Grossman]

Tom,

I'd recommend Elie in Fife.  It is one of my favorite courses
that I played when I was in Scotland.  In addition, it
isn't extraordinarly difficult, so it will be a good first
round of the trip.

BTW - When are you going to be there?  It looks like I am going to be there in August of 2003 as well.

[Doug Wright]

Tom IV,

I'd second Dan's recommendation of Elie, particularly as an opener. I think your colleagues will really enjoy stepping off the plane, stepping onto the first tee and having to hit a blind tee shot over a 50 foot high hill on their first tee shot in Scotland.   As you may know, they use a big periscope at the first tee at Elie to peer over this hill, which sits 75-100 yards in front of the tee, to know when it's clear in front--very cool. Plus there are some strong seaside holes and it's otherwise a very enjoyable links experience.

As an alternative I also liked Dunbar, which is on the coast past N Berwick. Crail/Balcomie is a very good and fun seaside links but a little short. We played Crail/Balcomie and Elie on the same day when I was there, and I preferred Elie.

All The Best,

[Vokey]

Montrose is relatively close by Carnoustie, if you are staying near there.

If you are travelling on your way to Carnoustie, you cannot beat Elie (aka The Golf House Club), which is where James Braid learned the game.

On the East Lothian coast, try Dunbar.

[Doug Wright]

Vokey,

Great minds think alike...  Welcome to GCA!

All The Best,

[THuckaby2]

Many thanks for all of these ideas, fellows!  I will indeed suggest Elie - Ran's writeup of that is intriguing for sure.  If that doesn't work, than Dunbar or one of the courses at Crail or Montrose.  But Elie will be the first request.  It does seem to work the best logistically anyway.

And Dave, the match will be set up v. you and your buds whenever such can occur... oh man, is Scotland ready for all of us?

Dates right now are July 19-27, 2003.  Yes, our arrival weekend a certain minor league event is occurs down at Royal St. George's.

TH

[mike_beene]

I would throw another Kingsbarn's round if you don't mind getting yo Carnoustie late.You could do a late dinner at St Andrews(there are only one or two places open that late.)Actually,my first choice would be to tryto get late lottery time on Old,but that's  taking a chance although hanging around St Andrews is fun.

[THuckaby2]

Mike - we're not gonna arrive in time to even try the lottery that Saturday - when would our names have to be in there?  And remember, we're talking 12 people... hard to believe we'd get 12 guys on on a Saturday.  But that would indeed be very cool....

Kingsbarns is a good call also, though I doubt the guys will go for that given we're gonna be there the next afternoon.  They're gonna want something different.

Thus Elie is sounding good....

TH

[Hart Huffines]

Tom,

Are you staying in Edinburgh the first couple of nights?

You have a great trip planned but based on my experience
(I do most of our group's driving) you might consider
seperating Carnoustie and Kingsbarns into two different
trips.  Kingsbarns plus Elie or Crail would be an
awesome day, but they may not allow access for so
many after 2:00pm, especially on a weekend.  

Getting to Carnoustie from
Edinburgh, playing, then driving to Kingsbarns and playing
will be very demanding physically, even on a bus.

I would play North Berwick as often as possible and
switch from the Portland Course at Troon to Western
Gailes or Prestwick.  Maybe Troon x 2.  I would also
play the Ailsa twice.  What a great day.

Email me at hcs0001@aol if you have any specifics.

[THuckaby2]

Thanks, Hart.

We will be arriving in the am on that Saturday, playing golf somewhere that afternoon, then going to Carnoustie and staying at the Carnoustie Hotel that evening.  At least for a group our size, we are required to stay there to have access to the Championship course.  Then we fit in Kingsbarns after the round there the next day because we want to play it, and because Carnoustie won't allow us to book 36.

N. Berwick is great fun indeed, but would you take a 2nd round there over playing Gullane PERIOD?  They're so close together and most of the group hasn't played Gullane, so that's what we decided to do.

Re Troon, to get the Old course we are required to also book the Portland... oh yeah, if we weren't we'd do Western Gailes or something else for sure.  But although I have no great love for either Troon course, the guys want to play it, so that's how it is that day.  As the time gets closer I may set up Western Gailes separately and just eat the money we paid for the Portland... but for now that is as it is.

The final day at Turnberry is up in the air and is SO damn expensive that it might be dropped and we just go home early and be good boys (yeah, right).  This trip is costing two arms and legs as it is and I've played the Ailsa already so well... that final day might be optional for those willing to spend the huge amount it's gonna cost to do (note you have to stay at the Hotel or the new lodges to play either course and all of that is mind-boggling, Pebble Beach expensive).

So that's why we're at how we are... any ideas for that first day?

TH

ps - we do have a bus and driver.  MANDATORY for us idiot Americans and cost us $40 each more than rental vans would... small price to pay for the rolling cocktail party, I'd say.

[Bob_Farrell]

Tom:

It really does depend on where you're staying the first night of your arrival. If you're going to St Andrews then Elie is a great choice. If you're going to Carnoustie, then I suggest either Scotscraig, Ladybank, Panmure, or Monifieth. If you're staying in the Edinburgh area, try Musselborough or go to Dunbar. Not all are links courses, but they sure as hell are fun to play!!!

Have a great trip even if it is 11 months away.

[Bob_Farrell]

Jamie Slonis:

If you want the BEST month to go, it's September. The summer is crazy. Mid- September is ideal and usually has the best weather.

BF

[THuckaby2]

Bob:

AHA!  Now this is what I needed... I've been too lazy to do geographic research yet... that is, I didn't know where all of these are!

We are indeed staying at Carnoustie that evening.  So something closer to that would be preferable indeed.  I shall ask our tour operator about each of Scotscraig, Ladybank, Panmure, Monifieth.

Thanks!

TH

[THuckaby2]

Tom,

Are you planning the trip on your own or through a travel company? I am starting to plan a trip for next summer as well, and could use some advice.  Plans to visit this year fell through, so... on to 2003. What month of the summer is best to travel?

Thanks for any info!

Jamie

Whoops!  Forgot this one, sorry Jamie.

I am using a FANTASTIC travel company called Wide Word of Golf - they are run by a friend of mine and they're based in Carmel, CA.  They have a web site, check them out.  We've discussed this MANY times on this board and there are pluses and minuse of doing it yourself v. using a tour operator but for me the bottom line is this:  absent the tour operator we would not be playing Muirfield or The Old Course.  That's it, plain and simple.  Their contacts and influence got us the access, and that's all I cared about.  One could do all the rest one's self but getting access to these would be at the very least quite problematic.  Beyond that it means absolutely no work!  I planned a huge trip myself once and oh yes, it can be done but it is a lot of work.

As for best time to go, I'd concur with Bob - September or maybe even October.  Less crowded, still lots of light, weather a little more iffy but then when isn't it?  Unfortunately my trip was planned based on life/work circumstances, thus it's July for us this time.

TH

[Bob_Farrell]

Tom:

Panmure might be best. It's only a couple of miles from Carnoustie and it's the course that Hogan prepped on for the '53 Open. It's a really interesting track.

Monifieth is also close, but more of a Parkland course, although a very good one. Scotscgraig id short and difficult!! Ladybank is a little out of the way if you're going right to Carnoustie because it's actually off the Motorway exit to St Andrews rather than Carnoustie.

BF

[Markep]

Sad to hear that Troon still requires you to book Portland in order to play the Old course. They did that to our group when I was there in '96. In any case, if you can play one of the other courses in its stead, and just eat the Portland fees I would highly recommend it. Portland is just not that interesting to spend one of your precious half days on it.

My ideal day there would be Prestwick (just around the corner as I recall) in th AM, lunch at Troon and Old course in the PM.

Thanks, Hart.

We will be arriving in the am on that Saturday, playing golf somewhere that afternoon, then going to Carnoustie and staying at the Carnoustie Hotel that evening.  At least for a group our size, we are required to stay there to have access to the Championship course.  Then we fit in Kingsbarns after the round there the next day because we want to play it, and because Carnoustie won't allow us to book 36.

N. Berwick is great fun indeed, but would you take a 2nd round there over playing Gullane PERIOD?  They're so close together and most of the group hasn't played Gullane, so that's what we decided to do.

Re Troon, to get the Old course we are required to also book the Portland... oh yeah, if we weren't we'd do Western Gailes or something else for sure.  But although I have no great love for either Troon course, the guys want to play it, so that's how it is that day.  As the time gets closer I may set up Western Gailes separately and just eat the money we paid for the Portland... but for now that is as it is.

The final day at Turnberry is up in the air and is SO damn expensive that it might be dropped and we just go home early and be good boys (yeah, right).  This trip is costing two arms and legs as it is and I've played the Ailsa already so well... that final day might be optional for those willing to spend the huge amount it's gonna cost to do (note you have to stay at the Hotel or the new lodges to play either course and all of that is mind-boggling, Pebble Beach expensive).

So that's why we're at how we are... any ideas for that first day?

TH

ps - we do have a bus and driver.  MANDATORY for us idiot Americans and cost us $40 each more than rental vans would... small price to pay for the rolling cocktail party, I'd say.

[THuckaby2]

Bob - many thanks!  Ok, we'll rank them in the order you say and see what the tour operator gets us.

Markep - I'm with you brother.  I played Troon Old in 1987 and didn't even like that one all that much, let alone the very boring-looking Portland.  Eating these fees might be worth it indeed.  We'll see what happens.  On the one hand I want to be a good guest though and stay for what I am supposed to stay for, especially since lunch is part of the deal also (as per Muirfield)... but on the other hand Mr. Monty treated us so much like dirt there in 1987 that an evil discourteous part of me would love to tell them where they can stick their Portland course.  Likely I'm far too wussy/well-mannered to actually leave... but it is tempting.

TH

TH

[Markep]

TH - "tell them where they can stick their Portland course" - I love it !

Sorry to hear that Mr. Monty treated you poorly, I guess Monty junior inherited a bit of that demeanor. I recall liking Troon very much though, what was it that you didn't like ? The only thing I didn't like was the view of the trailer park around hole 9 or so. I found the course to have many memorable holes; postage stamp, railroad hole etc. I played on a sunny day with 30 knot wind off of the water. It lived up to the hype I thought.

Bob - many thanks!  Ok, we'll rank them in the order you say and see what the tour operator gets us.

Markep - I'm with you brother.  I played Troon Old in 1987 and didn't even like that one all that much, let alone the very boring-looking Portland.  Eating these fees might be worth it indeed.  We'll see what happens.  On the one hand I want to be a good guest though and stay for what I am supposed to stay for, especially since lunch is part of the deal also (as per Muirfield)... but on the other hand Mr. Monty treated us so much like dirt there in 1987 that an evil discourteous part of me would love to tell them where they can stick their Portland course.  Likely I'm far too wussy/well-mannered to actually leave... but it is tempting.

TH

TH

[THuckaby2]

Markp:

I shouldn't be so hard on Troon Old.  Several regulars and I have battled this around for many years now... I guess I was predisposed not to like it after the treatment from Monty Sr., I can admit that.  But really, to me it was a one or two hole course, respected only for the championships it holds.  Take away those and it's a pretty boring course... just not much to it.  Of course this is relative to all the other greats near it - plonk it down here in CA and it makes our state top 20 most likely.

I am looking forward to seeing it again in any case.  I am nothing if not maleable.

TH

[Dan King]

Good as time as any to jump back in the fray.

Fresh off the plane, I'd vote for Luffness or Gullane No. 2.  Both within about a half hour of the airport. They are both good welcomes to Scotland. Neither is going to beat anyone up -- some of you might be hung over, some still drunk from tippin' 'em back on the flight. They both get you prepared for what is to come, with Gullane No. 1 right next door and Muirfield down the road a bit. Then after the round you can go out with 3 or 4 clubs each, playing as a tensome at Gullane No. 3 in the gloaming. For those that don't want to participate in gloaming golf, there is a Scotch at Greywalls or The Old Club House or even chipping and putting at the children's course in Gullane.

The drawback is that it is a few hours from Carnoustie, but since you have a driver why not have him drive during non-golf times rather than golf times?  They are two of the closer links to the airport. You aren't realy going to feel the effects of jet lag until that 9:00 am time in the morning.

If they are unhappy because they've never heard of Luffness, you can tell them it is used for Open qualifying when the Open is at Muirfield. It also has some of the best maintained greens in Scotland. It is private, and may be difficult to get 10 on a Sunday, but late Sunday, maybe it could work out.

Dan King
dking@danking.org

"You have to play golf in Scotland. What else is there to do there? Wear a skirt?"
  --George Low

[Brian Phillips]

Tom,

I would definately go for Elie.  I love the place.

or

Spend a night in Edinburgh and work your way through Rose Street with me!!

I am there until September next year, maybe we could get Rich down for a night as well?

Brian

[THuckaby2]

DAN KING!!!!

Long time no hear my friend.  Have you spoken to Dave H. lately?  I saw him last Sat as his Monterey squad defeated my poor Santa Teresa-ites in team match play.  We gotta get together and play again.

And thanks for the advice - well-said indeed!  I shall pitch the fellows on Luffness/Gullane 2 as well.  Very good point re driving more after golf than before, that does make sense.  And you have a very good sense of my buddies - this overnight flight will feature more drinking than sleeping most definitely.  That sounds like a hell of a day.

Brian - I shall be in touch most definitely with you, Goodale any other locals next spring as this gets closer... oh yeah, we'll get together somehow.  You might have to put up with my friends, but they are great fun.

TH