Is Bandon Trails Really That Good

[Tom Huckaby]

In my view, however, even if 14 is a miserable hole, I think Bandon Trails is as good if not better than the other 2 courses.  

That's a tall statement, Jason.  I don't disagree.  I love BT.  But care to flesh this out a little?  Many here have it as clearly inferior to at least PD, if not the much-maligned BD....

[Jason Topp]

Tom:  

My first criteria is purely subjective - which course do I think about the most in retrospect - and for me, the answer is Bandon Trails.

Beyond that, I think the course presents memorable shot after memorable shot:

The par threes are among my favorite anywhere and extremely diverse in their shot demands

There are many interesting visual tricks to the course.  For instance, I love the giant trees to the right of 9 that are out of scale with expectations and seem much closer than they are on the 2nd shot.

I really like the lake hole, in part because the resort seems like the kind of place that would never have a lake.

While the greens are severe in their undulation, I did not find them as tricky as those at Pacific and found them more interesting than those at BD.

I really liked the use of the ridge on the 4th hole and the choice between a better angle and a shorter shot into the green on the 6th.

I liked the extremely wide variety in the difficulty of the holes and the numerous opportunities to be aggressive.  I like hitting driver which you can almost always due on the course, when PD rewards more conservative plays off the tee.

If I were there on a windy weekend, I would like the shelter from the wind as a change of pace.

I really like all three courses, but I disagree with a claim that either of the other 2 are better than BT.  I also disagree that the land is better (with the exception of the ocean views and the need to get over that hill between 13 and 14).

I even liked taking a cart up one hill in the midst of walking 36 several days in a row.

[Tom Huckaby]

Great stuff, Jason - I'm with you on all of that.

I also really liked 9, as a change of pace... but never thought of it as you just posted, re the trees - that is a cool way to look at it and you're right, they do skew the perspective, in a good golf way.

Matt Ward has led the charge that the middle holes are "pedestrian" or something like that, and I've never understood it.  I think each of 7-8-9-10-11 are damn good golf holes... then from 12 on it's all great stuff for sure... naysayers about 14 and 18 be damned.

One more thing:  if 15 isn't one of the world's top 10 green sites in terms of beauty and coolness, than I'm Tiger Woods.  And I ain't he.  Wow do I love that golf hole.

I guess the only quibble I've had about the course is 16 - there's no good place to leave a layup, making going for the green in two kind of a necessary evil.  But hell even that's a very minor thing.

TH

[Jordan Wall]

I think that the difference in opinion on BT is interesting...same with BT.

I think Mackenzie wrote something along the lines of 'every great course has its haters when it opens....'it needs to really mature for the greatness to come out'...not an exact quote but nonetheless it gets his point across.

Does that say anything about the future of BT and CB?

[Michael Dugger]

Jordan

I have always felt there has been universal praise around here of Chambers Bay.  I don't know where you got the impression otherwise, simply because I, for example, do not think it bests Bandon Dunes does not mean it isn't an excellent, excellent course.

I probably snivel about Bandon Trails because it kicks my arse everytime.

That said.  I think the first 8 holes are world class.  Freaking epic stuff...

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan

I have always felt there has been universal praise around here of Chambers Bay.  I don't know where you got the impression otherwise, simply because I, for example, do not think it bests Bandon Dunes does not mean it isn't an excellent, excellent course.

I probably snivel about Bandon Trails because it kicks my arse everytime.

That said.  I think the first 8 holes are world class.  Freaking epic stuff...

Michael,

Its not necessarily just the people on this site.  There have definitely been critics of Chambers.

[Joe Bentham]

If I were there on a windy weekend, I would like the shelter from the wind as a change of pace.

The single biggest misconception about BT is that it isn't as windy as BD or PD.  BT's is the hardest course in a hard north wind (our predominate wind direction when its windy).

[Tim Bert]

If I were there on a windy weekend, I would like the shelter from the wind as a change of pace.

The single biggest misconception about BT is that it isn't as windy as BD or PD.  BT's is the hardest course in a hard north wind (our predominate wind direction when its windy).

As I just posted on another thread, the most severe wind we faced in the 20 rounds we've played out there was at BT.  Joe was actually on the bag that day in 2005 to watch a really ugly 36 hole match that my teammate and I won on the 36th hole.  It wasn't fun to watch a 4 handicap shoot 196 in two rounds on the course that day.  He shot a 79 the previous day at Bandon Dunes.

[Dan Smoot]

I birdied #14 by driving pin high just left of the green and getting up and down, so I know it can be done.  I agree that long can be a little too penal.  My father-in-law hit just over the green and his ball kept rolling have way to the next tee box.

The stroke avg in the recent mid-am qualifier was 4.66, one of the highest amongst par 4's.  Very difficult for such a short hole.

After reading the discussion here about 14, I have had the opportunity to play 14 twice.  I have had a 6 to a back right pin position and a 5 to a center pin position, but I really like the challenge of this hole.  I think the back right position is really a sucker pin position.  With the firm greens, I would never play any approach past the middle of the green with my ability.  There is too much risk/penalty of sending the ball off the back right portion .... it will go a long way.  I know the terrain may not fit but there is a need for a deep bunker back there to stop the ball. I don't think a bunker would lessen the challenge of the hole but would give the average player a fighting chance for a bogey.

The right side of the fairway presents about the same problem that the far left side of the fairway of No. 6 at PD.  However, the ridge turns the desired section of the No. 14 fairway into a small landing area.  It certainly takes the driver out of your hand if you are eratic.  I know I have really looked forward to 14 both times I have played because it is so demanding with both shots.

I would be thrilled with a par at 14 and theres nothing wrong with that.  

[Tim Pitner]

If I were there on a windy weekend, I would like the shelter from the wind as a change of pace.

The single biggest misconception about BT is that it isn't as windy as BD or PD.  BT's is the hardest course in a hard north wind (our predominate wind direction when its windy).

Yes, we noticed that quickly--Trails offers no respite from the wind.  

[Jim Nugent]

If you hit your tee shot on #14 to the right, can you lay up in front of the green with your second?  i.e., not try to hit the green at all, but instead chip or pitch or bump and run or even putt short of the green in the front?  This way you don't try to hold the green, don't risk running down the bank off the back or chunking into the bunkers, and may be able to save par if you can get up and down.  

Never played the course.  Just asking/speculating based on the pix.  

Jim,

Yes, that's a good play.  It's what I was suggesting above, in Post #18.  Are my posts invisible?

Sorry, Tim.  Not invisible, except when I'm speed-browsing through the posts and miss some important points.  

Glad to hear that's a good play, though.  Does it mostly take double out of the picture?  Or is the layup challenging also, as Huck indicated?  

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim:

I think one really does have to see the green, green surrounds and bunker to understand this:  there really is NO way to take double bogey completely out of play on that hole.  One bad shot anywhere along the way means double or worse.  And I'd say that for good players as well as bad.

And all this with no penalty strokes involved.... see, I'm not even counting a bad tee shot.... of course that brings double or worse into play.... no, I'm talking about on the fairway from 140 in.

You can successfully complete the strategy you asked about - chip it to left front, lying two - and STILL make double.  The green is so narrow and so weirdly contoured it's very easy to believe a chip falls off one of the sides, or even more probably, goes over the back... then the fun begins.

TH

[Tom Jefferson]

Good Morning;

From this local's perspective, the inimitable words of Slag McBandon ring true...."BT is a gauntlet."

A real piece of work....demanding golf.....great routing though the beauty of the land.....full of interest.

NOT saying it's the best of the three, necessarily.  But clearly it demands attention, respect, consideration, and the appreciation that comes from holding an open mind to it's complexity.

Cloudy and still weather as we prepare for the Mid Am.

Regards,
Tom

 

[Norbert P]

  No matter how good the first 13 holes were, this is what I am struggling with as a consider the Bandon Trails experience.

David, I don't know if you'd been to Bandon before but shouldn't 3 days  "...in Paradise" (DW) be loaded with more positives?  I'm not Dr. Phil but those 2 holes that bothered you really should be put aside, for your own peace of mind.

Also, I don't agree that the BT land is "vastly inferior".

(I am most curious though as to how Ben Crenshaw plays #14.)

[Tim Pitner]

If you hit your tee shot on #14 to the right, can you lay up in front of the green with your second?  i.e., not try to hit the green at all, but instead chip or pitch or bump and run or even putt short of the green in the front?  This way you don't try to hold the green, don't risk running down the bank off the back or chunking into the bunkers, and may be able to save par if you can get up and down.  

Never played the course.  Just asking/speculating based on the pix.  

Jim,

Yes, that's a good play.  It's what I was suggesting above, in Post #18.  Are my posts invisible?

Sorry, Tim.  Not invisible, except when I'm speed-browsing through the posts and miss some important points.  

Glad to hear that's a good play, though.  Does it mostly take double out of the picture?  Or is the layup challenging also, as Huck indicated?  

Jim, Huck is right that double is never fully out of play but, yes, playing just in front of the green should give you a chance at par and a pretty sure worst-case scenario of bogey.  

I played the hole downwind (from the green tees) so my 3 wood put me about 20 yards short of the green.  The time I pushed my tee shot, I didn't have much of an option but to play back to the front of the green--the other choice required getting the ball over the deep front bunker to the right and stopping it quickly, which wasn't going to happen from 20 yards away and a tight lie.  Against the wind, you would be hitting some kind of full wedge shot--you should be able to hit the target flat spot in front of the green; it's certainly an easier shot than to the saddle green.  It would be like that hole at Portrush where, was it Bobby Locke?, layed up in front of the green and relied on a chip and putt.  Bobby Locke's hollow?--something like that.  

[David Wigler]

  No matter how good the first 13 holes were, this is what I am struggling with as a consider the Bandon Trails experience.

David, I don't know if you'd been to Bandon before but shouldn't 3 days  "...in Paradise" (DW) be loaded with more positives?  I'm not Dr. Phil but those 2 holes that bothered you really should be put aside, for your own peace of mind.

Also, I don't agree that the BT land is "vastly inferior".

(I am most curious though as to how Ben Crenshaw plays #14.)

Slag,

As you know, I am no longer a GCA regular.  Back in the day, honest criticism was accepted and expected.  I truly consider the Bandon experience paradise.  Were that I had the financial wherewithal, I would go back again tomorrow.  I have traveled all over the world to golf and consider Bandon hands down the elite golfing destination on the planet.

Frankly I felt that PD was right where it belonged at #2 and BD where it belonged at #6 (Although I was the only one in my group who liked PD better - they felt it was too easy - another thread at another time).  I felt that BT was probably a #50 - #75.  In essence, a leading course at any other resort but a clear third here.  I cannot imagine how the statement vastly inferior piece of land is even debatable.  Through 13 holes, I was getting why it was #12.  The end was disappointing.  

I asked my three buddies what they would play if they came back.  If I had ten rounds at Bandon, I would play PD 5 times, BD 4 times, BT 1.  Two of my buddies were BD 5, PD 4, BT 1 and the third BD 6, PD 3, BT 1.  It is only honest criticism and discussion.  Hope that makes sense.

Dave

[Eric Olsen]

After my first couple of times playing BT, I would have used a similar allocation of rounds, but after our most recent trip, where we did 54 holes per day, three days in a row, on each course, we all came away truly loving BT, despite my negative comments about 14.  My allocation now would b 4 PD, 3 BD (black tees, the green tees are too far forward and neuter the course), and 3 BT.

[jeffwarne]

Looks like I may finally be making the trip.


Combining the trip with a visit to Seattle in February.
Landing in Portland Feb 18th at 12;30 am actually the 19th by then.
Plan to drive down Monday 19th amish to arrive early afternoon.
My son and I as golfers ,my wife along as well so not a pure all day golf event-staying Monday afternoon and depart area Thursday  early enough to get to Seattle.
not all day golf-though would consider a 36 hole day or a Preserve, Punch Bowl or Sheep Ranch afternoon.
Unlikely to hit all the courses this trip.


My question is, how difficult will it be to make tee times 21 days in advance?(If we elect to stay off property)
Prefer to stay in Bandon maybe in a rental near/or the beach/town so my wife would have options.(crazy low prices on beach front cottages in February)
But could stay on property if that's what it took to get tee times.
Not trying to play 36 so early times not an issue.


Obviously Bandon reservations are my next call but wanted to see what the local travel experts here had to add before I made inquiries.


Thanks

[Garland Bayley]

I've only played in January. I make tee times one or two days before going.

[jeffwarne]

Thanks Garland


didn't want to start anotyer thread

[Garland Bayley]

Having posted to this thread, you are now required to comment on BT #14.

Being left-handed the hole suits my eye well, so I don't see what all the fuss is.

[jeffwarne]

Having posted to this thread, you are now required to comment on BT #14.

Being left-handed the hole suits my eye well, so I don't see what all the fuss is.

Never been there-the excuse always being it's easier to get to UK/Ireland, but now with a daughter in Seattle I have a reason to go to the northwest.

[Garland Bayley]

I was suggesting your commentary be after your upcoming visit to Bandon.

[Kalen Braley]

I've only played in January. I make tee times one or two days before going.

Living in Oregon/southwest WA would be terrific for this exact thing.  Catch a good weekend weatherwise and go down for a couple of days at thier cheapest rate.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Jeff,

Not so sure what options your wife will have for entertainment in the town of Bandon. We stayed in a hotel for the exact same reason, but other than some diners, a few shops, and fishing boats there wasn't much to see. Maybe somethings change in the last 5 years. Nice quaint little town, but the spillover from the resort hasn't turned it into Pinehurst or Carmel.