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Phil McDade

The incomplete golf resume
« on: September 11, 2007, 12:32:36 PM »
A discussion finally recalled after the three-day haze of Langford/Moreau overdose in Wisconsin this past weekend...

What course -- public -- must be played in each state to have a complete golf resume? In other words, your golfing experience in state X is incomplete without having played course Y?

To start, the consensus (well, at least between Mr. Brat Slippage and myself, and maybe Kennedy -- I can't recall) midway through the big tour was:

Wisconsin = Lawsonia.

Others?

Tom Huckaby

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 12:34:01 PM »
California:  Pebble Beach

New York:  Bethpage Black

Washington:  Chambers Bay

Oregon:  Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Trails


Phil McDade

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 12:36:00 PM »
Huck:

No soup for you!!!!

One course only.......

Jim Franklin

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 12:47:20 PM »
South Carolina - The Ocean Course
Virginia - Cascades
North Carolina - Pinehurst #2
Nevada - Shadow Creek
West Virginia - Old White (Greenbrier)
Michigan - Greywalls

Mr Hurricane

Evan Fleisher

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 12:48:33 PM »
Phil,

Do resorts count?  If so, then...

Hawaii - Kapalua Plantation

Maybe we need one for each island?!?!?
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

CHrisB

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 01:00:03 PM »
New Mexico: Black Mesa
Nebraska: Wildhorse
Oklahoma: Karsten Creek
Texas: used to be Waterwood National :(, now The Rawls Course

Phil McDade

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 01:01:06 PM »
Evan:

Yes, resorts are eligible -- anything that anyone can actually get on (with enough cash...) without relying on access. I meant public in the broadest sense of the word.

P.S. How was Brown Deer?


Tim Pitner

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 01:07:09 PM »
Iowa:  The Harvester

Colorado:  tough for me not to say Riverdale Dunes, although many courses are undoubtedly prettier

Oregon:  Pacific Dunes

Brian_Ewen

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 01:15:13 PM »
Is there anything in Alaska ?

Brad Tufts

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 01:36:39 PM »
I'm finding this surprisingly difficult for the NE states.

I've divided it into two divisions:

Old low-key favorites:
MA: Franklin Park or George Wright (for the true Boston golf experiences)
RI: Triggs Memorial
CT: Richter Park? (haven't played)
VT: St. Johnsbury
NH: Balsams
ME: Kebo Valley

Upscale division:
MA: Red Tail
RI: Newport National
CT: Wintonbury Hills?
VT: Okemo
NH: Portsmouth
ME: Belgrad Lakes or The Ledges

Much heralded omissions I want you to notice:  Samoset, Great River, Equinox, Sugarloaf, Pinehills, Stow Acres, Mt. Washington, perhaps The Ranch and Lake of Isles too?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 01:42:57 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

JeffTodd

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 01:41:31 PM »
I think Atlantic City CC would have to be the choice in NJ.

Tim Pitner

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 01:55:23 PM »
Not every state has to have one.

Frankly, I don't think there's anything in Illinois that fits the bill.  One could never play Dubsdread and not be missing one iota of GCA knowledge.

Some of the courses listed so far fall into this category:  real nice courses, but not unique enough make a "must play" list.  They're more like "should plays".

I believe the question pertained to courses essential to the "golf experience" in a given state, rather than courses which contribute to GCA knowledge.  

Wyatt Halliday

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2007, 02:05:34 PM »
New Mexico: Black Mesa
Texas: Pine Dunes
Mississippi: Old Waverly
Oregon: Pacific Dunes

Mike_Cirba

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2007, 02:06:21 PM »
I'm not sure what is being learned here.

I think if someone nominates a course for any state they should tell us why it should be seen to enhance one's golf resume (and implied overall architectural knowledge base).  

Otherwise, it just sounds like a "this is my favorite course in X state" list.

JC Jones

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2007, 02:07:00 PM »
I disagree re MI

My argument would be for Belvedere.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Phil McDade

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2007, 02:14:14 PM »
Tim:

This is a joint thread amongst Shivas and myself, only recalled today when I finally came up for air...

I tried to keep the definition fairly broad, to try to encourage folks to come up with their own sense of "golf experience." (For example, some might argue Whistling Straits for Wisconsin, as perhaps the ultimate example of earth moving by the modern game's most notable earth mover ((Dye)) while others might even argue the original, mystical 18 at Blackwolf Run, which ala Brigadoon emerges about once a year for play.)

Mike:

The point of the thread was to get at that kind of discussion. I note Pasa has not been named yet for California, and that might make for an interesting argument in comparison to PBeach, which some on the board sort of disdain.

Mike_Cirba

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2007, 02:16:28 PM »
Phil,

You asked the right question.

With all due respect to the responders so far, I have yet to see a good, complete answer.  ;)

JC Jones

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2007, 02:17:50 PM »
I disagree re MI

My argument would be for Belvedere.

I haven't seen Greywalls, but I would tend to lean toward Belvedere myself.  However, the course isn't distinctive in and of itself.  It is distinctive when compared to anything other publics in northern Michigan.  

Ciao

And distinct when compared to any other publics anywhere else in Michigan.

Disclaimer:  I have not played UofM, Angels Crossing, Shepherd's Hollow or Greywalls.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Tom Huckaby

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2007, 02:26:05 PM »
Phil:

No soup?  Hell I narrowed down a state FULL of great public courses to just one (CA-Pebble)... that ought to get me some mulligitawny right there.

So OK, make it Pacific Dunes only for OR.  I just figured if you're there it would be silly not to play all three.   ;D

As for Pasatiempo, well... it is truly a great golf course.  I wish I could play it more.  But you asked for golf experience... and one's resume of such is indeed incomplete without playing Pebble Beach.  One could live without playing Pasatiempo.

TH
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 02:26:34 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Gib_Papazian

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2007, 02:41:32 PM »
Shivas,

Please, you must be kidding. Shoreacres might be my favorite Hidden Gem of all time. On the Gib Scale, it gets a solid "9" with no apologies to anybody.

California? . . . . . . Pebble Beach is a cliche' . . . . . Cypress Point.

NY: NGLA

Connecticut?: Fishers Island (Don't bore me with technicalities, if I have to take the train to New London and a 20 minute ferry ride, it is not New York)

R.I.?: Newport.

Texas?: There is nothing in Texas worth seeing except for the girls in Dallas.

Arizona?: Apache Stronghold. I am not trying to be a kiss-ass, but I love it and don't care if the grass isn't perfect.

Nevada?: Shadow Creek for amusement, but Boulder Creek as a golf course. maybe Incline, but I'm too close to the subject there. Most of it sucks eggs.

New Jersey?: obvious

Pennsylvania?: Too many close choices . . . . . but I was at Merion the day Hogan died. Walking up 18 after a ripped drive and seeing the flag half-mast . . . . . can't beat that.

Bermuda?: Mid-Ocean for week. Again, don't bore me with details.


Tom Huckaby

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2007, 02:42:32 PM »
Shivas,

Please, you must be kidding. Shoreacres might be my favorite Hidden Gem of all time. On the Gib Scale, it gets a solid "9" with no apologies to anybody.

California? . . . . . . Pebble Beach is a cliche' . . . . . Cypress Point.

NY: NGLA

Connecticut?: Fishers Island (Don't bore me with technicalities, if I have to take the train to New London and a 20 minute ferry ride, it is not New York)

R.I.?: Newport.

Texas?: There is nothing in Texas worth seeing except for the girls in Dallas.

Arizona?: Apache Stronghold. I am not trying to be a kiss-ass, but I love it and don't care if the grass isn't perfect.

Nevada?: Shadow Creek for amusement, but Boulder Creek as a golf course. maybe Incline, but I'm too close to the subject there. Most of it sucks eggs.

New Jersey?: obvious

Pennsylvania?: Too many close choices . . . . . but I was at Merion the day Hogan died. Walking up 18 after a ripped drive and seeing the flag half-mast . . . . . can't beat that.

Bermuda?: Mid-Ocean for week. Again, don't bore me with details.



Gib - read the instructions - he asked for PUBLIC courses.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 02:43:40 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Rick Shefchik

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2007, 02:47:02 PM »
Okay, I wrote this before I noticed that the criteria was public courses. So what? I'm not going to delete all of this, especially since so many on this board have little trouble gaining access to private clubs. It's still an interesting question -- which course in the state would you have to play to complete your resume.

After going down a mental checklist of my favorite courses in Minnesota, I have to echo Shivas and say there isn't a single course in the state that one would have to play to make his or her resume complete.

Interlachen? A nice relic of an earlier age, but I like it more for its Bobby Jones-related history than its actual design. An outstanding course, with a few odd holes.

Somerset? It's semi-template Raynor, and a blast to play, but I have to believe there are more pure examples of classic Seth Raynor in other states. Ditto for Minnesota Valley and Midland Hills.

Hazeltine? A good example of the beginning of the modern era of golf design, but also borrowing from the past. With all Reese Jones' tinkering, it's like Minikahda on steroids. I really like Hazeltine, but I can't say it's a course that every true design student must play.

Minikahda? I haven't played it in 30 years. They tell me Ron Prichard's 2001 restoration went well. Old-timers also say that when the original design was bisected by Minnetonka Boulevard, the course suffered irrevocable harm.

Woodhill? Played it once, along with about 500 other players that year. If so few people ever get on the course, how important can it be?

Minneapolis? Excellent tournament course, many terrific holes, but I don't know how many golfers are filled with love after playing it.

White Bear Yacht Club? Quirky, hilly, deceptive, strategic -- but not particularly representative of anything other than itself.

Northland? In a class by itself for views and, this year, firm-and-fast Ross in the north woods. But like White Bear, it doesn't represent a style of golf that can be repeated elsewhere.

Golden Valley? Love the deepened greenside bunkers and the holes with elevation changes, but there are a few too many ordinary holes for me.

Oak Ridge? Flat-out love it. Maybe it's the fact that it wasn't designed by a name-brand archie that keeps me from saying, this is the one.

Rochester CC? I've never played it, though people rave about this Tillinghast classic. From the pictures it looks wonderful, though maybe a bit over-treed.

The Quarry? A big, tough, option-filled golf course. Probably the best example of how good a new course can be in a rugged wooded setting. On the other hand, if I were going to pick one course, the Quarry's newness knocks it down a rung or two in a state filled with old classics.

And that's the problem -- I can't pick one old classic and say, "This is the course you have to play in Minnesota." Maybe my gopher brethren can do better than I have. I'd love to hear what they think, because I don't think there's a local consensus on the best or most significant course in Minnesota.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 02:49:42 PM by Rick Shefchik »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Gib_Papazian

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2007, 02:48:49 PM »
Huckaby,

As "America's Guest," every golf course is "public" to you. . . . . . the only difference between you and Getka is he cuts the ball and you draw it.

Tom Huckaby

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2007, 02:50:29 PM »
Huckaby,

As "America's Guest," every golf course is "public" to you. . . . . . the only difference between you and Getka is he cuts the ball and you draw it.

If that's the only difference between Ed and me, I shall go end it all right now.  And I say this with all respect to my friend Ed.  ;D

In any case, my point was the answers are wholly different if one is allowed to list private clubs.  You cheated.   ;D


Doug Wright

Re:The incomplete golf resume
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2007, 02:57:13 PM »
Colorado:  tough for me not to say Riverdale Dunes, although many courses are undoubtedly prettier

Oregon:  Pacific Dunes

Tim,

Since Phil allows resorts, I'd have to say Broadmoor East for the mixture of Ross and RTJ plus a dose of history thrown in.

Agree with you re Pacific Dunes in Oregon; also agree with those who say Black Mesa in NM and Wild Horse in Nebraska, two terrific modern golf courses. Would it be Old Works in Montana for the uniqueness of the site? Arizona is a tough state to call...
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