Tom Doak politely ask me to-------

[ed_getka]

This really looks like a fun hole.

As someone pointed out there weren't that many conclusions reached, all I mostly read were people hypothesizing, which is NOT a conclusion.

Ron,
   What is that quote above? A conclusion or a hypothesis? If you haven't played the hole how would you know? How is your decision different than the rest of us who have looked at the picture?

[Ryan Farrow]

Ed, by being on the property he would obviously know that the hole  was a par 5. He would also get to see all the contours and the green site that makes the hole so fun to play. A lot can be gained walking the golf course, you do not have to play the shots to be able to notice a fun shot. Looking at a picture on the other hand really gives you nothing. I mean people were mistaking a 600 yard par 5 for a par 4 and even a 3.

[ed_getka]

Ryan,
   A picture is posted for us to look at, and then people conjecture what might be going on, and Ron and Tom D find it amazing that people would draw "conclusions". So apparently you can't draw conclusions from pictures according to the "experts". So why post a picture? Just so we can ooh and aah?
    Don't mind me, I just get annoyed by smugness.
                                                                         

 

[Dan Kelly]

Right on, Brother Getka!

[Ron Farris]

Ed,
It is a hypothesis.  If I dub my tee shot into the native, chunk it out, into the fairway, top it into the fairway bunkers, get a plugged lie - take 3 shots to get out, hit my next shot fat, skull a wedge over the green into the crap, chip on and 3 putt, then I might not consider it a fun hole.  I have no intent to debate what IS is or what fun is.  Fun to me is to stand on this tee and visualize hitting great shots to the (personal preference) ideal spots, and when I get to the green make the putt.  Hell, Fun to me is just looking at different courses.  I do not necessarily have to play them to consider my experience fun.  Golf is meant to be fun.  I think Mr. Doak understands that.  And that is my opinion.

As a near zero handicap I had fun tonight playing golf with my son.  I shot a 48.  Not bad for a near zero.  Although the term Zero could mean different things  to different people.

[Kalen Braley]

Ryan,
   A picture is posted for us to look at, and then people conjecture what might be going on, and Ron and Tom D find it amazing that people would draw "conclusions". So apparently you can't draw conclusions from pictures according to the "experts". So why post a picture? Just so we can ooh and aah?
    Don't mind me, I just get annoyed by smugness.
                                                                         

 

Ed,

I was one who speculated that it might be the 10th hole and I thought it was a fun exercise comparing with what was seen in the picture and what I could decipher from the apparently rather inaccurate topo map on the website.

I too am not seeing where the issue was with having a bit of fun in trying to figure out which hole it was.  

[ed_getka]

Ron,
   I have no problem with your opinion. The next time you post a picture of a hole why don't you just tell us what is going on then you won't have to be amazed by the conclusions people reach.
   I'm glad you had fun out there with your son. I had fun with my son last evening watching him learning how to hit golf shots. The game is fun for you, me and everyone else here.

[Ron Farris]

The game is fun for you, me and everyone else here!!!!

I like having fun being amazed at what other conclude.

My first introduction into the world of Tom Doak was a slide show he put on in a maintenance barn for the crew at Long Cove.  I concluded then that viewing pictures of golf courses was fun no matter what the pictures are:


(a driving range target on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation complete with organic fertilizer.  The flag is an old football jersey)
Golf is enjoyed at all level.  Fun is defined in all types of manners!

[RJ_Daley]

Well, this was fun for me...  I wish we would do it more often.  I think it may be a faster learning curve for many of us if we had good but slightly deceptive photos, a rudimentary bit of topo information, and let us conjecture what is happening throughout the hole corridor.  The zoom on a photo is one way to really jock out the distance factor.  

The only real thing I had trouble with was how far it was to the end of the right FW, to carry, and to the green.  But, you gotta admit, I had most of it right.  I am waiting for TD to really tell us what his main motive was.  I'm hoping it was about winning a bet in a cowboy bar, and painting Deer Lodge Red.  

[Norbert P]

Perhaps it's the camera angle, but how do you get to the further left fairway from the right one?  The areas between the bunkers seems a bit too narrow for walking on repeatedly.

Looks good though.

[Adam Clayman]

Slagbert, I would hazard to guess that there's alot more room there than is visible. Notice the classic cut. It means there's an equal amount of fairway over the spine.

[Craig Sweet]

I'm confused Slag....the fairway has been two stripped and I only see the one fairway, bisected by large bunkers.  Where do you see a "far left" fairway?

[Ken Moum]

Perhaps it's the camera angle, but how do you get to the further left fairway from the right one?  The areas between the bunkers seems a bit too narrow for walking on repeatedly.

Looks good though.

If I read Tom D's comments correctly, he said that there's a 70-yard fairway between the bunker where the guys are standing and the next one behind it.

Their size and placement makes it appear that they are much closer together than that.

Ken

[Tom_Doak]

If you look at the right of the fairway in the pictures, that's really the fairway from 200-325 yards off the tee.  But you are seeing mostly the left side of it which is bright green; the dull right half is only barely visible because they are mowing it straight down the hill from right to left across the line of play.

The width at the bunkers is from the guys in the maintenance cart all the way to the brown/green edge on the right of the picture.  All that width of fairway drops over the horizon at that point running right to left, goes into a deep valley, and comes back up again toward the green about 200 yards later.  You can't even see how wide the fairway is on the other side in this picture because the left edge is cut off.

Incidentally, the forward and middle tees for #11 are visible in this picture ... they are just an extension of the left side of the fairway.

[Norbert P]

  I'm hoping there's a big wide turbo-boost fast lane on this hole to be discovered.

I don't mean to second guess decisions, but what is the most interesting feature on the third shot? I mean, I can imagine the 1st and 2nd shots would be dramatic challenges, but the third (assuming shots are executed as intended according to a hope of  GIR) looks to relax.  Being 600 yards, is it the theory of Alister on the 16th at Cypress to ease up on the golfer after such heroic efforts to get there?

[RJ_Daley]

Slag, one possible motive or design thought that TD has, that I'll guess, if he won't tell us any cowboy bar stories...  

The hole has that hidden from this angle, or perhaps apparent from the actual tees, turbo slide going from right FW to down left.  With the altitude, and the thought that this 600 yarder (maybe 550ish for the likes of you and I...) is probably even more down hill than the photo suggests, it is one of those holes that big hitters can actually reach with F&F in the foregreen, and big green for the bounding run-on that reaches or almost reaches.  Thus, you have this psychological thing that you stand on the tee of 550 or 600, you are an avid player, but no gorilla, and think, man I'll be lucky to get there in 4.  Then you are either rewarded with a huge tee bal that gets your juices going of getting there easy in 3 or even dreams of the run on in 2, and your gonads swell up.  You have achieved the 'pleasurable excitement' of overachieving what you thought was your game, and you come away loving TD and his course design... The course isn't built for tour competition, it is built for a select user that loves to take up a golf challenge in a wonderous setting, and if he has some places on the course where he has done something that he is proud to say he accomplished, he is also more enthusiastic about other challenges that the archie threw at him that looked easier than they were, like the clever short par 4s that can jump up and eat your lunch.  

[Norbert P]

... achieved 'pleasurable excitement' ...

Like reading your posts.   (I'd kinda like to hear an old cowboy yarn spun, though, pard)

[RJ_Daley]

Norby, you are sounding moooooore like Matt Ward everyday...pard.

[Tony Dear]

Gents, forgive me, this is my first ever post on this site so I'm going to play it ultra-safe. I was at Rock Creek in March last year shortly after construction had begun. Unless you've been to Montana (which I hadn't) you really can't imagine the scale of the place. On one hole, the short 8th, Tom and Eric were deliberating over whether or not they should knock some trees down. The trees were beautiful and encased the hole nicely, but they thought taking them down would open up the vistas. They were absolutely right. As they came down, Montana's big sky became apparent and the hole looked less like the twee, parkland par 3 it had been and more the rugged, wilderness hole it should have been. The routing looked absolutely superb as well, and I can't wait for the opportunity to see how it turned out (although I doubt very much I figure on Bill Foley's list of possible members).
By the way, I'm a writer and did a story on my visit to Rock Creek for 'Golf Pages' in London. Here's the link;

http://www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner/index.asp?newsID=4256

While I'm here, just wanted to say I love this web site and am really looking forward to getting involved in the discussions. My favorite course by the way is St Enodoc in Cornwall, England, while my favorite in the US is anything by Doak (a bit brown-nosed I know, but it's true) and Black Mesa in New Mexico.

[Garland Bayley]

Gents, forgive me, this is my first ever post on this site so I'm going to play it ultra-safe. I was at Rock Creek in March last year shortly after construction had begun. Unless you've been to Montana (which I hadn't) you really can't imagine the scale of the place. On one hole, the short 8th, Tom and Eric were deliberating over whether or not they should knock some trees down. The trees were beautiful and encased the hole nicely, but they thought taking them down would open up the vistas. They were absolutely right. As they came down, Montana's big sky became apparent and the hole looked less like the twee, parkland par 3 it had been and more the rugged, wilderness hole it should have been. The routing looked absolutely superb as well, and I can't wait for the opportunity to see how it turned out (although I doubt very much I figure on Bill Foley's list of possible members).
By the way, I'm a writer and did a story on my visit to Rock Creek for 'Golf Pages' in London. Here's the link;

http://www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner/index.asp?newsID=4256

While I'm here, just wanted to say I love this web site and am really looking forward to getting involved in the discussions. My favorite course by the way is St Enodoc in Cornwall, England, while my favorite in the US is anything by Doak (a bit brown-nosed I know, but it's true) and Black Mesa in New Mexico.

Tony,

We highly prefer you put your name on your posts.

[Norbert P]

  Welcome to the asylum, Tony.  

 

(It might be a fun exercise to place GCA members with these characters.  We know who Randal McMurphy is, though)

 "I bet a nickle." Martini(?)
 "That's not a nickle! that's just a broken cigarette!" McMurphy     (Playing poker and betting with cigarette's valued at a dime.)

[Tony Dear]

That's me in the back; the tall, gormless one with the stick.

Tony

[Norbert P]

 okay, Chief. But please tell me that's not a long putter to be "utterly cryet doon".

[Ron Farris]

I think that is a KJ Choi putter grip on the putter of Chief.

[Garland Bayley]

I think that is a KJ Choi putter grip on the putter of Chief.

Who's KJ Choi? I haven't seen any posts by him. That's a Pete Pittock putter grip of course, which is designed to rule at the Dixie cup.