Langford&Moreau tour, Brats and Blatz...

[RJ_Daley]

For those who aren't offended by a guest taking photos... and with all due respect to Mike McGuire our host at West Bend CC:

Brad Swanson and friends attacking the first hole, something of the uphill fortress, knolltop affair.

second shot on the first


approach to 2nd


L&M typical diagonal grass bunker and gullwing mound

approach to par 5 3rd

the raised green with many contours and pinnable areas


The long par 3, 4th.  I think I hit a 5metal, and missed front-left and short and two chunked chips from the heavy grass bunkering there

Ted Morreau hit a beautiful 3metal draw, which unfortunately he didn't get to see into the sun.


second shot following the natural kettle and morraine contours on the par 5, 6th?

6approach green


Tee on 7, short dogleg, par 4, with gullwing grass bunkandmounds, OB deep right, deep ravine low left, and plenty of FW contour for the odd and varied stance for second shot..

Lz on 7, looking dramatically uphill.  The photo unfortunately doesn't give enough definition to severity uphill, nor the steepness of the green complex face as it is obscured by the tree shadow on the left face up to green.


the lovely par 3 8th.  I mean I really liked it:


beatuful second shot from LZ of the 9th.  typical L&M on eschelon gullwing bunkering and green platform.  A great hole...


Sorry for dark frame, but the elegant dinner Mike McQuire set up. (back of Brad Swanson's head )

Dan the L&M man, a relaxed and conversant dinner companion...


West Bend Country Club only has 9 holes by Langford and Morreau.  Yet, they may be some of the best examples of their style.  BTW, they had some of the best greens conditions for speed and trueness of roll that I have played.  Perhaps a little soft due to the recent weather.  But, a treat to put.   Mike McGuire shared much research and old aerials, articles and a neat overlay of the original proposed L&M second 9 superimposed over the actual aerial of the existing 9 done by Gill and redone by Hills.  It is very instructive to see and wonder if they would have done the originally planned routing and look of L&Ms original intent.  All made for a dream evening for us GCA.com enthusiasts.

Maybe some Lawsonia pix later...

[Michael Christensen]

what unique green sites.......I can tell from the pics they are in very good condition...looks like you all had a grand time!

[Phil McDade]

Great photos, Dick.

A few observations about West Bend:

-- I would agree with Dick -- the nine West Bend holes are in some ways even more dramatic than the holes at Lawsonia, in terms of demonstrating the unique L/M look. The severity of the pushed-up greens, the boldness of the bunkering and contouring on some greens, and the absolute guts and willingness to route holes over terrain that most might think unplayable is pretty astonishing. West Bend's terrain is much more rugged in parts than Lawsonia, and yet L/M found playable and interesting holes on it.

-- The volcano par 4 opener is really a treat, because that green complex just stares you in the face the entire trip up the fairway. I think it adds to the intimidation of the hole, as opposed to a lot of volcano holes, which tend to be par 3s.

-- The backside of the green on No. 2 is just incredible -- you feel like you're on top of a two-story building up there. You can catch a glimpse of the road leading to the clubhouse just to the left of the greensite -- from the entry road, it looks even more impressive. Twenty feet pushed up in the back? It might be that high...

-- The 3rd green has an internal contour that's just enormous -- 3 or 4 feet of drop. It's just to the right of the two golfballs on the green, and it's why you can only see half the flagstick in Dick's picture.

-- The par 3 4th reminded me a bit of the 17th at Lawsonia -- a hole of merit built on ordinary land. The hole's length dictates a long iron/wood play, but is all carry because of the severity of the green complex.

-- The ornamental, newly planted trees on the extreme left of the picture on hole no. 6 discourage play over one of the more interesting parts of the terrain on that hole; our host Mike McGuire said the routing of the hole has been changed over the years, and that L/M originally wanted the hole's fairway to include that route on this roller-coaster of a par 5. The green is tucked into the woods right-center of the picture.

-- The 7th may be the boldest hole I've ever seen, anywhere. What's neat is that L/M used their signature partial blindness -- hiding some of what's to come from the player on the tee -- on the most dramatic piece of property on the front nine. To turn that dogleg corner and see what confronts you -- an iron to the top of some building, essentially -- is to wonder how Langford had the imagination and courage, really, to route a hole over such terrain (which was basically all dense hardwood forest when the course was built). An amazing hole, and one in which the picture really doesn't capture the terrain.

-- The par 5 9th again is over some really dramatic property, and the long approach shot to a green framed by the attractice clubhouse is both beautiful and challenging.

Three days of L/M was a real treat, but in terms of just golf architecture, West Bend was the highlight (for me, anyway) -- nine truly brilliant holes of boldness and imagination.

[Tyler Kearns]

Dick,

The approach shot into No. 7 looks very intimidating, how long is the hole? It sort of feels like a reverse-camber fairway whereby the steep face front-left asks for a right-to-left approach, but the lay-of-the-land is fighting that shot shape.

Are those grass hollows a trademark of the Langford/Moreau style, or are some/all of them filled-in bunkers?

TK

[RJ_Daley]

Phil, I'd say that the back of that 2nd is about as steep and high as the front of the "boxcar" hole at Lawsonia, maybe a fraction higher on the back left portion as you approach the green.  

I'm sorry I didn't get a good photo of the tee on 9 and the rockin n rollin LZ.  But, I was trying to restrain myself in taking too many pix so as not to offend the guardian's of decorum regarding a guest taking photos...  

BTW, did I cause anyone to be waiting to hit a shot, or slow down play?  

I don't know how to share such a great experience of playing a wonderful club like WBCC with as interested of a group as GCA.com readers,  without a bit of a photo essay.  I'm sorry...

Yours truly,

Dick "Wang" Daley

[Brad Swanson]

Tyler,
   The hole is a mid 300 yard hole IIRC.  Phil is right about the photo not showing just how steep and high the rise to that green is. (its gotta be seen to be appreciated).  The challenge on the teeshot is hitting it to a place where you have at least a level lie, and hopefully not a downhill lie.  Anything short and left is DEAD.  Long and right is OK except the recovery pitch is to a small green that slopes away from you (and the greens were very quick).  Its a very cool hole.  
   As far as the grass hollows/bunkers on LM courses, some are grassed in and some never got sand to begin with.  Mike would know which of these options is the case at West Bend.

Cheers,
Brad

[RJ_Daley]

Tyler, I don't have a card, but I'm guessing 7 is about 350ish yards.  I hit driver about 225-30 into a decent place in LZ.  (that is my ball on far left of photo with my shadow in frame) I had about 120ish to the green.  I hit 9 iron up into the green and came up about 3 ft short of putting surface.  It is really hard to figure what to hit up there due to knowing you should take a little more club up so high.  But, then you worry you will go long, with is no bargain either.  

These steep sloped green sites often catch your approaches on the severe side hill of the green surrounds.  A person doesn't ever practice such a billygoat stance to hit a SW or such at such an severe stance.  You have to almost balance at 45degree or more shoulders even with ground angle and close your club and be brave enough to really follow through after contact /ball.  

My favorite term for the L&M grass or sand bunkers with concave long diagonal sweeping adjacent mound is "gullwing" bunkers.  They are sometimes hollowed out in the fat leading edge of the mound and sweep to generally slighter face as the wing sweeps back on the diagonal.  Raynor has similar, but they are artful and more gracefull in the Langford and Morreau versions.  They are everywhere to be found on their courses, that I have played.  L&M often present them on-escheleon in sets of two or three.  I am somewhat emotionally attached to their look.  They are alluring, particularly in the long shadow hours.

[Mike McGuire]

My favorite term for the L&M grass or sand bunkers with concave long diagonal sweeping adjacent mound is "gullwing" bunkers.  They are sometimes hollowed out in the fat leading edge of the mound and sweep to generally slighter face as the wing sweeps back on the diagonal.  Raynor has similar, but they are artful and more gracefull in the Langford and Morreau versions.  They are everywhere to be found on their courses, that I have played.  L&M often present them on-escheleon in sets of two or three.  I am somewhat emotionally attached to their look.  They are alluring, particularly in the long shadow hours.

Dick-

Ron Forse has a theory on why the clearly manufactured look of Langfords bunkers and green sites look good.

Langfords detailed plans often had the cubic yards of cuts exactly match the fills that became the bunker or green site. Because there is the same amount of material there it looks right to your eye.

[Phil McDade]

Tyler:

No. 7 at West Bend goes 361 from the tips, 349 from the blues, and 322 from the whites. Certainly not long by today's standards, and really a medium-length par 4 when built back in 1931.

The tee shot is to a pretty broad fairway, but one with very uneven lies. You can't cut off the dogleg, because of the forest left off the tee. Hugging the dogleg shortens it, but the fairway is lower over there, making the approach shot that much more uphill, and too far left (as Brad mentioned) is dead. There is actually room over the large mound to the right, and while there are some level lies over there, it does lengthen the second shot and it is still considerably uphill. Among those I was playing with, we figured it was at least a club extra, perhaps two.

I think the really amazing thing about this hole is how Langford and Co. found it. This area of the course (the last 1/3 of 6, all of 7 and 8, and the first 1/3 of 9) is carved from a very dense forest, and seeing that ground for this hole is really the mark of inspiration, in my view.

[Dan Moore]

Here are some photos of the 2nd and 3rd hole green features Phil referenced.  Ron Forse called the drop off on 3 a San Andreas fault feature.  This drop off may seem to severe to work but there is quite a bit of green beyond it to make it work.  In fact it adds a cool element of strategy in how to play it when the pin is back.  You can try to fly it to the back, play a low runner or hit one on the top of the cliff and let it trickle down.  

2nd Green


3rd Green

[Phil McDade]

Yardages, just to add some perspective (yardages are in order of black tees, blue tees, and white tees). The L/M nine plays 3477 from the blacks, 3406 from the blues, and 2815 from the whites.

1 -- 420, 405, 304 (and uphill the entire way, and straight north, which can be into the prevailing wind in Wisconsin on cool, humidity-free day).

2 -- 406, 395, 342 (not sharply downhill, more slightly downhill).

3 -- 520, 510, 438 (slightly uphill? There is sort of a downhill turbo boost in the LZ, if I recall, but then slightly uphill after that).

4 -- 217, 201, 154 (over dead-level ground, from a typical flat -- not raised in any way -- L/M tee. Heads almost due west, and thus usually into the wind. A tougher tee shot than 10 at Lawsonia?).

5 -- 392, 386, 312 (parallels some of the same terrain as 2).

6 -- 557, 551, 403 (a real roller coaster, with the last portion uphill on this man-sized hole).

7 -- 361, 349, 322 (but plays much longer re. the second shot).

8 -- 159, 138, 130 (a very nice short par 3 nestled into the woods, and perhaps a club longer than usual, as it plays slightly uphill).

9 -- 445, 471, 410 (plays as a par 4 from the tips, and as a par 5 from the blues and whites, leading to an unconventional par of 37 on the front nine).

One of the really interesting things about this L/M nine is that Langord, in his writing, really did stress providing golfers with a variety of yardages for their approach shots into greens, and the WBend nine really does fulfill that. For example, holes 1 and 2 differ by only 10 yards (all examples from the blue tees), but I can see using a two or three-club difference in the approach shots, because of the varied terrain upon which they sit. Hole 5 plays nearly 40 yards longer than 7, but I can see using a longer club for the approach on 7, again tied to terrain and also the more demanding tee shot on 7 requiring less than driver off the tee there. And the par 5s vary by quite a bit -- 6 requires two good whacks to be in position for a mid-to-low iron approach, 3 could have a wedge into the green with two well-played shots, and 9 played as a par 5 would require perhaps even a fairway wood for the player going for the green in two on this shortish par 5. The two par 3s also demand very different shots -- but the greensites (4 is 40 yards deep, the deepest on the front nine; 8 is only 24 yards deep, the smallest) reflect that.

[Jim Nugent]

Lots of elevated greens.  Were they all manufactured, or is that how the land naturally lays?  They look quite cool to me.  

[Phil McDade]

Jim:

Langford/Moreau are pretty much known for their manufactured greensites -- it's probably their most visible signature element (though they have others). In particular, L/M greensites often provide some sort of corridor for a low or even ground-based approach into a green -- some widers than others, obviously, but they usually have some kind of opening. But then the rest of the typical greensite is what you might call heavily engineered -- steep falloffs on the sides and esp. the backs, with very deep bunkers (sand ones or grassed-in ones) flanking the sides and sometimes the backsides of greens). RJ Daley's pictures of the approaches on 1, 3 and 9 are very good examples of the kind of things you'd seen playing a L/M course.

That's not to say that they didn't use the lay of the land for the courses. For instance, no. 1 at West Bend really does climb a pretty decent hill, and then has a large greensite on top of it. Hole no. 7 is an extreme example of this -- a pushed-up green on top of a small mountain. Hole No. 2 (depicted very well in the picture) flows through a valley very near the greensite, but the manufactured green is "pushed up" from the surrounding contours of the land (and on 2, I really mean pushed up....)

[Phil McDade]

Phil, I'd say that the back of that 2nd is about as steep and high as the front of the "boxcar" hole at Lawsonia, maybe a fraction higher on the back left portion as you approach the green.  

Dick:

Funny you should mention that (this slipped by me yesterday). I had the good fortune of being short both rounds at Lawsonia Saturday, and thus had ample time for comparison (and I saved bogey both times...you didn't expect me to save PAR from down there, did you?).

I think the backside of WBend 2 is higher. Maybe not by much, but my eyeballing from both perspectives (down below, and from up on high) on WB 2 convinced me it's more pushed-up than the boxcar.

[Sean_A]

I think the course looks pretty cool.  It is strange how many of the greens seem to be trying hopelessy to remain in balance with the surrounding land.  I have not seen quite so many greens like this in succession before.  I know it sounds bizarre, but this look reminds me a ton of Kington.  The difference being that the terrain at Kington dictated the greens look askew to the land - just sort of popped up.  WCC seems to have the greens popped up for effect.  Its almost like there are little roads leading to the greens, but some of these roads in effect are too narrow to follow (because they often twist just short of the green) or appear so narrow that guys may want to fly the ball.  I wonder how hard it is to properly shape the shots to bounce onto the green?  Either way, its a neat bit of deceptive confusion.  Did the site originally have trees or were they pretty much cleared to allow wind to do its thing?  

The one possible problem I see with a course like this is because of the design of popped greens and narrow bouncing in areas, the course can't get too firm or its recovery city over the back and wings all day.  

Thanks for posting Dick.

Ciao

[Tom Roewer]

Great looking course. you must have had a ball!  If those pyramids posing as spruce trees could just go away.

[Mike McGuire]

Great looking course. you must have had a ball!  If those pyramids posing as spruce trees could just go away.

Slow but sure some are going away.....




on other holes we are limbing them up so you can go around them easier.

[Mike McGuire]

 Its almost like there are little roads leading to the greens, but some of these roads in effect are too narrow to follow (because they often twist just short of the green) or appear so narrow that guys may want to fly the ball.  I wonder how hard it is to properly shape the shots to bounce onto the green?  

Ciao

Sean

Those twisty roads into the greens are a recent design change. The area in front of the greens were designed to be all bent grass. Then you would have a chance to bounce it in.

[Sean_A]

 Its almost like there are little roads leading to the greens, but some of these roads in effect are too narrow to follow (because they often twist just short of the green) or appear so narrow that guys may want to fly the ball.  I wonder how hard it is to properly shape the shots to bounce onto the green?  

Ciao

Sean

Those twisty roads into the greens are a recent design change. The area in front of the greens were designed to be all bent grass. Then you would have a chance to bounce it in.

Mike

Are you saying the cut, the grass and/or the actual road width is different from the original design?  Also, are you saying it isn't feasible to kick balls in on some of those greens?

Ciao

[Jim Thompson]

This might just be my faaaaavorite golf pic of the year, with the brownout images of Augusta a very close second!

[Mike McGuire]

Sean

On the first and second holes the area in front of the green was planted with bluegrass to keep balls from rolling back toward the player. It is possible on these holes to bump it in but only from 30 yards or so as it is quite steep.

On other holes 3,5,6 and 9 the front of the green is more level with the fairway and you are able to bump it in from the LZ.

The original design has fairway all the way across the front of the greens.

[Phil McDade]

Did the site originally have trees or were they pretty much cleared to allow wind to do its thing?  


Ciao

Sean:

The original nine at WBend designed by L/M was built on a kind of long, rectangular piece of land that runs north-south. Based on some aerials we looked at dating back as late as the 1940s or 50s (a guess...the course was built in 1931), the course for the most part was pretty wide open and void of trees -- with the major exception of the southern-most third of the front nine, which was carved out of some very dense forestland, and features some of the nine's best terrain. You play the final third of the par 5 6th hole, all of 7 and 8, and the tee shot on 9 from within those woods. The rest of the trees you see on Dick's photos (at least, a good share of them) appear to have been planted, I'm guessing post-WW II.

I actually think the corridors/pathways leading up to the greens are more playable than perhaps they might look in the photos. The more I play L/M courses, the more I find myself sort of aiming for those corridors if I'm unsure of reaching the green, because those pushed-up greens tend to "shrug off" poorly (or not even poorly; even slightly) made or misaligned shots.

And, I'd add that most courses in Wisconsin like WBend look incredibly green these days, as we had the wettest August on record in the state.