Does the backdrop matter?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

On another thread I wonder whether the Mourne Mountains matter to Royal County Down. Of course they do, visually. But do they atually affect play?  We know that Thompson, working in the Rockies, scaled and detailed his architecture with the backdrop very much in mind.

I know that a professional would have all his concentration on the shot in hand and would probably never see the backdrop during the round, but would YOU play those courses differently if the mountains weren't there? (Tournament professionals need not respond.)

[Adrian_Stiff]

On another thread I wonder whether the Mourne Mountains matter to Royal County Down. Of course they do, visually. But do they atually affect play?  We know that Thompson, working in the Rockies, scaled and detailed his architecture with the backdrop very much in mind.

I know that a professional would have all his concentration on the shot in hand and would probably never see the backdrop during the round, but would YOU play those courses differently if the mountains weren't there? (Tournament professionals need not respond.)

Mark- I feel pretty sure you have answered your own question here. Back drops good or bad will not affect how the better player plays but probably will to a small/tiny degree affect how a lesser player plays. Great backdrops make great holes though.

[Ken Moum]

On another thread I wonder whether the Mourne Mountains matter to Royal County Down. Of course they do, visually. But do they atually affect play?  We know that Thompson, working in the Rockies, scaled and detailed his architecture with the backdrop very much in mind.

I know that a professional would have all his concentration on the shot in hand and would probably never see the backdrop during the round, but would YOU play those courses differently if the mountains weren't there? (Tournament professionals need not respond.)

I'm certainly not a good player and I don't think the backdrop has much of an impact on my play.

I will say that I don't mind seeing "civilization" from the course, like you do on The Old, or Brora, but I am much less enamored by having is all around me like the typical housing development course.

The last couple weekends I've played couple of prairie almost-links courses, and found the proliferation of McMansions to be slightly depressing.

Ken

[Tom_Doak]

I think backdrops have more effect on players than is commonly recognized.

The most obvious example is the dogleg hole where the flag is in view from the tee.  Many players of all handicaps, just before they hit their tee shot, glance at the flag instead of out into the middle of the fairway, and then drive it right toward the flag into the rough or bunkers at the corner of the dogleg.

Likewise, I believe that many players will put their last-minute focus on a strong background feature (like the spire of the Slieve Donard Hotel) and hit it that way, even if that's not the line of play they want to take.

An architect could use this tendency to help the player OR to make it awkward for him, depending on the placement of the tee and green.

[Paul_Turner]

Here's one I like:

[Mark_Fine]

Of course it matters.  Architects take advantage of backdrops to make their golf holes "better", I'll leave it at that.

At the one course I worked on in the mid-west, I was constantly talking with the members about all the backdrops that were now shrouded by trees.  Wonderful long range views across the golf course and of distant mountain ranges were obstructed.  We opened up some of the views between three of the holes and most all of the members were thrilled at how good it looked.  

We did the same at a course out in central PA restoring long range views beyond one of the par three holes.  It is amazing how much more interesting and beautiful (and difficult I might add) that golf hole has become.  

[Padraig Dooley]

I'd be very surprised if backdrops and surroundings didn't effect every player,
backdrops will either inspire or distract,
a player in tune and at ease with his surroundings will enjoy the game better and probably play better.
A player out of his comfort zone and ill at ease with surroundings will struggle.

I've never played a tribute or replica course, but by comparing the copies to the original,
we could see how much more inspiring the 18th at TOC, the 16th at CPC or the 13th at ANGC are
because of their unique backdrops.

[Sean_A]

Here's one I like:

Paul

That looks a lot like it could be Edgbaston - near University of Brum.  I haven't played the course, but it is meant to be pretty good.  If you are posting pix I spose its a Colt.

Ciao

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

You are right.  It's short, small and good.  The back 9 gets a little squashed. Best to play when they let it dry out, as in the pic, 'cos the greens were designed for the ground game.

I'd like to think that Colt placed the green with the Brum bell tower in mind (like the Slieve Donard spire...another Colt hole).  Or was it just a happy coincidence?

[TEPaul]

Mark:

No, I won't play the course differently if the Mountains of Mourne weren't part of the back drop. I wouldn't play any course differently if a backdrop didn't come into play, but if an architect routed that course without using those mountains as a backdrop it would've been a bloody crime.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

For really good players, the use of a backdrop when possible can be invaluable.  When only able to see the pin on a skyline green, it is difficult to pick an optimal target that is away from the pin.  When these greens are framed, they suddenly become much easier.  A good player is going to look for the backdrops to give a better visual of the shot at hand.  Unless the course is soaking wet, you are trying to feed the ball towards the pin while using the safest part of the green as a missing area.  Backdrops provide great perspective in visualizing the shot and providing a chance for better targeting.

[Mark_Fine]

Robert,
I think you are right, the better the player the more the backdrop can impact their play.  
Mark

[JMorgan]

Backdrop is very significant in perception.  For neuroscience nerds like myself, it introduces a fascinating phenomenon called the horizon effect.  Check out how the moon diminishes in size as it moves from the horizon into the sky, for instance.  The same is true for objects along the horizon as they are compared to other objects of varying shapes and sizes when your visual system scans the landscape.  I could bore you for hours with this stuff but it is very significant in course design and one of the underappreciated psychological factors that comes into play in golf.

Paul, that's a great picture.  (I still owe you that parcel. )

[Lloyd_Cole]

I played at the Broadmoor in Colorado 15 yrs ago. Every hole, as I recall, has some kind of mountain vista in view. I've never putted worse in my life. Trying to get a grasp of what was uphill or downhill was very difficult. I joined a local after nine holes or so and he said that my plight was common for out of towners.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Lloyd,

I know exactly what you mean. Putting in the mountains can be incredibly deceptive. I think that my worst/best example was at Dollar in Scotland, but I've had similar nightmares at Cavendish, Mellor, Macclesfield and Stamford in the Pennine fringes not a million miles from here.

Mark.

[Steve Lang]

 

No question for one-two timers.. but once you're familiar.. isn't it just wallpaper, unless you can sit back and just soak it in.. ohhh and "back-drop" could hav two meanings eh?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Nice backdrop but; I just dont see the relevance of how it affects play. I think some great backdrops can inspire (good or bad shots) I am pretty convinced a pro/great player does not allow it into his mindset.

[Sean_A]

Sean

You are right.  It's short, small and good.  The back 9 gets a little squashed. Best to play when they let it dry out, as in the pic, 'cos the greens were designed for the ground game.

I'd like to think that Colt placed the green with the Brum bell tower in mind (like the Slieve Donard spire...another Colt hole).  Or was it just a happy coincidence?

Paul

Is the tree situation in the pic the same for the remainder of the course?

Ciao

[Marty Bonnar]

Caution!: PUI ALERT!

Interesting Question from the (semi?)-professional musician.

I take 'backdrop' to equate to the theatrical version here.

Geilgud or Larry, dear, dear Larry could soliloquy the Bard equally as powerfully in front of a black screen or projected footage of muck-spreading and I'd still be as enthralled.

Get to the point ya fat, hairless git! Okay, okay...

The quality of the product is the key. GREAT golf hole/GREAT performance not necessarily affected by the 'context'. Possibly enhanced, occasionally weakened, but the performance is the thing.

The more weak-minded are perhaps more affected by surroundings. The more imaginative more suggestible by the quality of the performance, whether it's at the Met, the Globe, the primary school nativity play or Singstar on the PS3.

Yea, verily, I prithee 'tis truth beyond the ken of such simple minds...

FBD.

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

You are right.  It's short, small and good.  The back 9 gets a little squashed. Best to play when they let it dry out, as in the pic, 'cos the greens were designed for the ground game.

I'd like to think that Colt placed the green with the Brum bell tower in mind (like the Slieve Donard spire...another Colt hole).  Or was it just a happy coincidence?

Paul

Is the tree situation in the pic the same for the remainder of the course?

Ciao

Sean

No not really.  Perhaps the tee shot on 2 is a bit narrow and there is a daft tunnel of trees on the par 3 3rd but the green is out in the open so unless you hit a stinker these don't influence play.  There is an ugly stand of conifers behind the 12th for safety purposes...it gets a little tight with the 17th.  But other than that the width is fine.

James

Can't wait to see what you found!

[Bob Jenkins]

Every time I have played Capilano, and stood on the 1st and 6th tees, looking down at the downtown highrises in the distance, I just want to hit the sweetest high arching drive that floats in the sky above those distant structures.

No question the backdrop affects how you play.  

[Mark_Fine]

If you don't see and appreciate the backdrops of golf holes, then you probably miss a lot of the other little nuances of golf course architecture that help make golf courses great!  I should add that sometimes it is only the backdrops and surrounding scenery that is great and the rest of the golf course is blah.  Old Head comes to mind.  It all works together to make great golf courses great!
Just my opinion but I'm sticking with it  
Mark

[David Stamm]

Yes, but it all depends. I'm not sure if this hole would nearly be as memorable if the coastline was not there.

[Tom_Doak]

There is a great illustration of what I was talking about with backdrops in this week's GOLFWEEK, where there is a photo of the new short par-4 16th hole at Royal County Down (which is where this thread started).

From the tee, the fairway angles slightly left to right toward the green along a ridge, with a bank leading down to trouble for the player who leaks his tee shot to the right.

The high point of the mountain backdrop is where a lot of people will instinctively aim, and if you're not strong enough to get near the green that will lead you to hit the bank and kick away to the right.  The green is offset a bit to the right of the natural focal point, which gets you leaning that way.  

If the architect was being conscious of these factors then he was deliberately trying to lead players astray on his short par-4 ... Pete Dye would love this hole.

[Tom_Doak]

David S:

There's another concept in your photo.  Notice where the point in La Jolla lines up in the photo ... almost directly behind the green, but just to the left, leading players a bit to the left.  If you wanted the hole to play easier you would move the tee a bit right to line up the point right behind the green.  Dr. MacKenzie did that frequently, and while he never wrote about it, I don't think it was a coincidence.