Is it possible to create tees at ground level?

[Mike_Cirba]

After playing a course this past weekend that was located in a river flood plain, and where the shortest tee was 7 feet high, and then starting to notice that the whole idea of rectangular tees is starting to look about as natural as 70's bellbottoms, I'm wondering if it's possible to build purely ground level tees?   I'm thinking it would probably work on sandy soil which drains quickly, but that clay might be an issue.   Or, do they have to have some tilt to them?

I'm kindof a fan of just throwing two tee markers on the ground and hitting from there....even at fairway height.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I think all tees need at least 0.5% grade, although a few architects build them level but with a sand base and tiles below, much like a USGA green.

As far as building them at ground level, yes, it can be done.  Or, only a few inches high to keep surface water from draining across, but not so much that anyone would notice.

We have built a few tees that are fw extensions as suggested by George Thomas. I don't know if they are still mowed that way.  Any time there is a super change from the guy who was out there with you, these things can get lost in translation.

We have even built a few tees below grade a bit. Small slopes can drain on tees (and greens) but large amounts of overland flow must be cut off.

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

See Garden City GC. It's the ultimate in natural "grade" tees.

And, believe me, it's not only an example of how cool "natural grade" tees look, it's an example of how cool and natural the perspective is on the golf hole itself with "natural grade tees".  

Obviously, part of it is the fact that the course is so old. I guess back in that day the likes of Emmet and Travis hadn't heard about this architectural cliche that the whole course "should be right there in front of you".

Perhaps things started to change when some guy who was 5'6" said; "It's UNFAIR that some guy who is 6'5" can see more than me."

The irony is that Travis was a small man.

But, you know what? There is something to be said in golf for the "David against Goliath" analogy.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jeff,

Weird as it sounds, I'm intrigued with the idea of below-surface tees.

Punchbowl tees?   Why not?

On what courses were you able to build fairway extension tees?   Jeez...I love that idea too!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

I am simply astounded by the fact that the model of Garden City hasn't been copied on this earth 2,000 times.

Ground level tees (with no more than two sets of markers) and greens, sandy soil with varieties of bunkers from inverse bunkers (actually sandy mounds) to deep pots, and crossing hazards and diagonal carries used to create variety and interest in differing winds, and greens that just lie like sheets thrown across the ground.

You must have read my mind, because I was thinking specifically about Garden City, and also what I've read here regarding the tees at Sebonack and Chambers Bay.  

[TEPaul]

"I am simply astounded by the fact that the model of Garden City hasn't been copied on this earth 2,000 times."

No you're not. Not really. You understand golf course architecture and the history and evolution of it too well to say that or really believe it.

But the point is the time is here and it's coming more and more for what you and I and most on here and plenty out there are feeling.

The important thing to realize for the future is that it will never sweep golf and architecture and it frankly never should. The game and the art form is too big and should always be too diverse (the Big World Theory) for that.

But the important thing is in this way our time has come or will continue to.

But we need to get beyond even this.

What will the future bring? Will it be more from the past, some incredibly beautiful new wrinkles, or some of both?

Before I die I would like to see a real minimizing of sand bunkering in golf and architecture. I think it will make the rest more realistic, more natural given some sites, and more strategically thoughtful.

Obviously, there's not all that much ever available but things like angles or topography are wonderful old standbys and golf and architecture will always depend on them for its essence.

And then, maybe a hundred or two years from now the sand bunker itself can have something of a renaissance in golf and architecture.  

[michael_j_fay]

A number of the tees at # 2 were at one time at grade. Just a rectangular patch mown from the fairway grasses. It worked fairly well due to the phenominal drainage, yet all of them have been replaced with slightly elevated formal tees.

[Mark Bourgeois]

This is a pet peeve of mine. It's a subtle barrier to walking as one must choose whether to summit or find a pass, typically through 3-4 such mountains on a modern course.

Do modern courses designed as walking only or walking preferred build tees lower?

[Kerry Gray]

It's possible and it should be done more.
Sean's comment seems to touch on one of the prevailing reasons why they are so common.
"the player wants to see what's in front of him"
The "tower" view of every hole.
I understand drainage is important on the tee, but this seems to be a speedbump, not a roadblock to more tees at grade.
This is one of my pet peeves with modern courses because most of the rectangles look awful.
 

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
What makes you think that ground level tees are rare?  I could post hundreds of photos of tees just slightly perched above grade.  I think they look great.  As for rectangle tees, I think they look fine but this is mostly a matter of personal preference.  I see tees shaped like circles, ovals, crescents, amebas,... and they mostly look goofy and contrived to me.  Just a simple grass rectangle to start the hole works fine in my opinion in most situations.  
Mark

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,
What makes you think that ground level tees are rare?  I could post hundreds of photos of tees just slightly perched above grade.  

Mark,

That's my point.   I'm talking ground level....fairway level...not need for a rise level.   Kinda like what Michael Fay mentioned used to be the scenario at #2.

[Brad Swanson]

Mike,
   I believe the opener at Lawsonia could be easily mistaken for fairway if not for the tee markers.  Of course, Langford had no qualms about blind teeshots there either.

Cheers,
Brad

[J_McKenzie]

Here is a photo of the new tees we built at Brunswick CC, a Ross course designed in 1938-39:



Ross specifically mentions in his notes that no tee should be more than a foot above natural grade.  We have rebuilt all the tees with this in mind, with many basically at ground level.  

I would also add that tees will more than likely increase in height over time due to standard maintenance practices, ie- topdressing, same thing with greens.  At Brunswick, the green surfaces were anywhere from 6-14" higher than when orignally built.  We didn't measure the tees.

John

[Bruce Katona]

Mike: You hit the nail on the head in your question, not sure if anyone answered it.....the course you were playing was along a river flood plain and the tees were raised...perhaps the greens were elevated as well....


I have to believe the tees were elevated to keep the above the 100 year flood elevation....it's ok to allow fairways and rough to flood. but very costly to lose tees and greens, which probably was the design concept to elevate these tee boxes.

I'm all in favor of ground level tees as long as they drain properly and don't have too much surface flow across them...might require a small swale or drain on the uphill side to move most of the water around them.

[Mike_Cirba]

JMcKenzie,

Cool pic...thanks for sharing.

Bruce,

Yes, the greens had the 7 foot minimum elevation too.  

[Kyle Harris]

I've found ground level tees also help with the overall feel of the golf course and the player's connection with the feature. When one is placed on a pedestal, it's easy to feel like you're hovering above the features of the course and not actually connecting with them mentally.

The ground level tee almost humbles the golfer with regard to the hole.

Penn State's White Course features many ground level tees that have now been relegated to forward tees. The new back tees are raised blemishes upon the land that I hope are reconsidered with the continuing restoration work.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

I've been trying to build tees without fill ever since I started doing this; it's one of the less remarked-upon features of minimalism.  It's really not that hard to do if you choose good places to put your tees, but every once in a while I've put one that sits a bit awkwardly down in relation to the surrounding grade, and I get an earful every time that happens.

We also talk about this a lot in consulting work ... it just amazes me how often clubs have built a new forward tee on a pile of fill which sits up and blocks a good line of sight to a bunker or some other feature.

[Dan Herrmann]

Gil Hanse just extended the fairway on French Creek #1 back to its natural "end", and the tees are placed in what is essentially the fairway.   I love the feature.  

Gil mentioned last year that they liked the result so much that they've started using it at other projects.