Your first thoughts on these photo's

[David Stamm]

Forgive the quality of these photo's, I was in a bit of a rush to finish my round as I had to meet my family afterwards. I wanted to get everyone's first reaction to these photo's of this hole. It's a par 3 of 215 yds (apprx). When I saw this hole (it had been years since I had been here last and since then it has been heavily reworked) I couldn't believe what was being asked to do. The rocks on the left hide the left side of the green . I couldn't help but think, "thank god the pin was on the right". I'm all for the occasional blind hole used in the right situation, but this seemed a little much for such a long par 3. FWIW, I tried to sling a hook in there (it's OB on the right) and put it in the bunker that you see. How would you feel if the pin was blind on the left? Too much? Ridiculous?

[Jay Cox]

I don't think that it's ridiculous at all.

What would make it so?
The carry over the ridge?  There are hundreds of holes of the same length with water fronting the left side of the green.  This hole might be slightly more penal, since you have to have some air under the shot to get it over the rocks, instead of just sufficient distance, but that difference is pretty marginal.

The blindness?  Here, I actually think that the length of the hole makes the blindness even less of a problem.  The hole is only partially blind:  you can see half of the green, or at least a big chunk of it.  It's easy to figure out where the pin is if you can't see it.  And because it's a long par 3, you aren't expecting to get the ball into birdie range anyway.  You can see the front right edge of the green and can play to it as if the ridge were not there.  That's a fine way to play the hole for almost all of us.  And if you want to try to sling a hook back to the left side, nothing about the hole prevents you from trying it.  Sure, it's a hard shot; but it's a hard hole.

The bottom line for me is that there are a slew of ways to make a three on this hole.  You can hit to the right-center of the green.  You can hit to short of the bunker and, from what I can see, have a long but straightforward chip.  Or you take a risk to give yourself a chance at a short putt.  It seems like the kind of par 3 that we could use more of:  a hole where it actually takes some cajones to shoot at the flag and where there are plenty of other ways to get the score you want by playing away from it, or even away from the green altogether.

(Take everything I say with the caveat that I've never seen or played the hole and don't even know where it is -- so I could be misreading what I see in the pictures something fierce.)

[SPDB]

My first thought? Don't go to Cruden Bay!

[Kalen Braley]

My question would be...How far does it play from the white tees?  

But at 215 perhaps hoist a 5w nice and high over the rocks??

[Chris Cupit]

I actually would prefer the hole on the left (away from the OB) as long as the rocks on the left do not come too close to the green and assuming there is no OB on the left.

It's a shame the house is directly behind the hole as the view would be infinitely better.  Also the land and even the bunker on the right seem a little bland espicially in contrast to the left side.

Anyway, I hook the &^%$ out of it usually so I'm all for the left hole location

[SPDB]

Just to get a sensee of what I'm talking about re: Cruden Bay, this is the 15th, a par 3 of similar length:

[Jay Cox]

Re: the out of bounds:  Is it really in play?  It looks like its fifty or more yards right of the right edge of the green!

[David Stamm]

I don't think that it's ridiculous at all.

What would make it so?
The carry over the ridge?  There are hundreds of holes of the same length with water fronting the left side of the green.  This hole might be slightly more penal, since you have to have some air under the shot to get it over the rocks, instead of just sufficient distance, but that difference is pretty marginal.

The blindness?  Here, I actually think that the length of the hole makes the blindness even less of a problem.  The hole is only partially blind:  you can see half of the green, or at least a big chunk of it.  It's easy to figure out where the pin is if you can't see it.  And because it's a long par 3, you aren't expecting to get the ball into birdie range anyway.  You can see the front right edge of the green and can play to it as if the ridge were not there.  That's a fine way to play the hole for almost all of us.  And if you want to try to sling a hook back to the left side, nothing about the hole prevents you from trying it.  Sure, it's a hard shot; but it's a hard hole.

The bottom line for me is that there are a slew of ways to make a three on this hole.  You can hit to the right-center of the green.  You can hit to short of the bunker and, from what I can see, have a long but straightforward chip.  Or you take a risk to give yourself a chance at a short putt.  It seems like the kind of par 3 that we could use more of:  a hole where it actually takes some cajones to shoot at the flag and where there are plenty of other ways to get the score you want by playing away from it, or even away from the green altogether.

(Take everything I say with the caveat that I've never seen or played the hole and don't even know where it is -- so I could be misreading what I see in the pictures something fierce.)

The hole is at Meadowlake in San Diego's North County. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but it just struck me as a little over the edge when you have a hole of that length, with OB on the right (there's actually a road that I saw about 6-7 cars go by as I played) that requires a big draw. If you block it, sayanora. If the hole was say, 160-170 tops, that would seem more reasonable. I hit a solid 4 hybrid that just didn't hook enough. I'd like to play it again with a big cut and play it over the slope and rocks and see what might happen. So in short, I don't mind the blindness, but that combined with OB on the other side seems like it is a little too much. In the end, if you hit a good shot it's a moot point. I just don't seem to see alot of options for different levels of players here.

[David Stamm]

Just to get a sensee of what I'm talking about re: Cruden Bay, this is the 15th, a par 3 of similar length:

I actually like blind holes. But I don't think there is OB left here on this one with a road next to it.

[David Stamm]

I actually would prefer the hole on the left (away from the OB) as long as the rocks on the left do not come too close to the green and assuming there is no OB on the left.

It's a shame the house is directly behind the hole as the view would be infinitely better.  Also the land and even the bunker on the right seem a little bland espicially in contrast to the left side.

Anyway, I hook the &^%$ out of it usually so I'm all for the left hole location

I agree Chris, the house does not do the green site any favors. The rocks don't get too close to the green either. BTW everyone, behind the green on the line of sight of the rocks, there is about 10-15 of rough and then another road. So long left is a reload situation as well.

[SPDB]

I don't think there is OB left on your picture either, no?

[David Stamm]

I don't think there is OB left on your picture either, no?

Sorry SB, I meant to the right.

[Jeff Doerr]

David,

What is the distance from the white tees? It seem like a reasonable test if the proper tees are selected. The OB does not seem too close on the right.

[David Stamm]

David,

What is the distance from the white tees? It seem like a reasonable test if the proper tees are selected. The OB does not seem too close on the right.

Jeff, the tee's are as follows.


Black- 219
Blue-  196
White-167


You are correct, the OB is not all that tight. But the prevailing wind is quartering from left to right (from 11 oclock to 5 oclock).

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Nice outhouse.

[David Stamm]

Nice outhouse.

That's actually the clubhouse.

[David Stamm]

David

I think the hole looks pretty good except for the bunker - it ain't necessary.  I say extend the green to the left edge of the bunker and then take the bunker out.  The only concern I have is about room behind the left hillside.  Can a guy hit a long iron/wood over the side and still hold the green?

Ciao

Sean, I think your suggestion would solve my problem with the hole. As far as the hill, (I assume you mean the one in the forefront with the boulder on top) the green doesn't open all that far to the left. If remember correctly, just to the right edge of the boulder.

[Michael Blake]

Do you guys think that bunker's purpose may be to help prevent a sliced/blocked ball from bouncing further right and out of of bounds?

[Jay Cox]

I think the hole looks pretty good except for the bunker - it ain't necessary.  I say extend the green to the left edge of the bunker and then take the bunker out.  

Sean or David,
If you did this, it seems like you take a lot of the thought of the hole.  Just whale the ball at the right side of the green.  If you miss left, and the pin is on the left, you're in great shape (unless you miss way left).  If you miss right, you're on a grassy slope with looks from the picture to be a pretty straightforward uphill chip.

On the other hand, with the bunker, if you decide that you don't want to go at the pin you can't just indiscriminately bail right.  You have to think about distance as well, maybe aiming for the front right edge of the green, and then if you miss left you probably won't have enough club to carry over the junk.  Or maybe you think it's worth the risk of ending up in the bunker if you push your right-side-of-the-green shot.  

I like the hole better with the bunker.

[John Nixon]

David, I played this course for the first and only time about 8 years ago - I'm having trouble placing the hole. Is it preceeded by a dogleg left par 5 and followed by a shorter par 4? If that's the one, I don't remember that it struck me as being too outlandish or unreasonable. I played it from the whites though.  

I also remember there were some other holes on the course I'd consider rather odd - one par 4 curved to the right and up a steep, steep hill. Pretty much two consecutive blind shots if I recall it correctly.

[David Stamm]

David, I played this course for the first and only time about 8 years ago - I'm having trouble placing the hole. Is it preceeded by a dogleg left par 5 and followed by a shorter par 4? If that's the one, I don't remember that it struck me as being too outlandish or unreasonable. I played it from the whites though.  

I also remember there were some other holes on the course I'd consider rather odd - one par 4 curved to the right and up a steep, steep hill. Pretty much two consecutive blind shots if I recall it correctly.

John, this was the first time I had played this course in about 10 years. When you played it last and now, there has been alot of changes done to the course. Combining of holes, dramatically changing distances etc. This is the 14th. I honestly can't even remeber what it was before (11th?). There is a dog leg left par 5 preceeding it, but there is a par 4 afterwards of about 426yds. That hole used to be a long par 5, dog leg right. Now alot of these changes may or may have not happened when you played it last, but I'm in agreement with you. There are quite a few strange holes out there. The hole you are describing sounds like the 310 yd par 4 3rd hole.

[David Stamm]

David, I played this course for the first and only time about 8 years ago - I'm having trouble placing the hole. Is it preceeded by a dogleg left par 5 and followed by a shorter par 4? If that's the one, I don't remember that it struck me as being too outlandish or unreasonable. I played it from the whites though.  

I also remember there were some other holes on the course I'd consider rather odd - one par 4 curved to the right and up a steep, steep hill. Pretty much two consecutive blind shots if I recall it correctly.

Jay

You could be right, but I was under the impression that a ball landing near that bunker is gonna kick way right.  

Sorry if I gave that impression Sean. It would not kick hard. My thoughts were simply that a draw certainly looks to be the shot de jour and the bunker seems a little excessive, both in look and function, based on the nature of the hole.

[George Pazin]

If you're playing the blues or blacks, do you really have that much trouble controlling the ball for this shot? I'm a mediocre golfer and it wouldn't bother me from 200, at least from what I see in the photo. That's one where, if I hit it that far right, I figure I deserve the penalty shot.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think its ok as it is, I like the half green target, I can understand Seans point re the bunker but it helps define the target area.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This hole is the result of the real estate dictating design.  The current owners of Meadowlake successfully changed a few holes because they were able to obtain subdivision rights and the now we have a wonderful boxlike home ruining a potential skyline green.  This course was built on the cheap by RTJ while he was building his Pauma Valley masterpiece only 5 miles away(15 by car!). Because it was built on the cheap, there are some awesome green complexes--amazing what some imagination can do when there is no money for thorough shaping!
OT I played here a good couple hundred times over the past 25 years  This was the final job for a US Open Champion from Stamford, Ct.

[Tags:]

Tags: