Can a Super get too old?

[Craig Sweet]

Can a super get too old?  Well...a super can certainly be too young...and an old super can get to set in his/her ways and never make meaningful changes...

[JMEvensky]

To me,"meaningful changes" would seem to deal with playability(faster,firmer).Would a Super who doesn't play be less attuned to why those meaningful changes are desirable?

Also,assuming you had a non-playing Super,how would you go about explaining the importance of drier conditions?

[SL_Solow]

Barney,  When would you suggest the appropriate time is for aeration?  Obviously spring and fall are out of your rotation.  That leaves winter and summer or perhaps never.  So which is it?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[David Lott]

As I said in the thread about "best writer,"

"It was the best of tines, it was the worst of tines."

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney,  When would you suggest the appropriate time is for aeration?  Obviously spring and fall are out of your rotation.  That leaves winter and summer or perhaps never.  So which is it?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Shel,

I know that aeriation is vital to the life of the greens.  I would like to see a program based on need instead of by the book.  That is how I got involved in this thread...I value the experience of older workers over the book learning of whipper snappers.  As weather and play changes I think plans should change...All I am asking for since the bar is now so low is 30 good days a year.  That is not possible when you aeriate the week that plugs finnally close if that.  15 days either way might make a world of difference...but that takes experience.

note...In my world it is dangerous to call any employee too old...I think inexperienced is safe and defendable.

[Craig Sweet]

I am always amazed how hung up on the condition of the greens golfers can get....they are always too slow....too fast...dead...half dead....too sandy...too full of holes etc.etc....to suit their taste.

I get the impression that most golfers join a course or judge a course based soley on the condition of the greens....in the overall acerage they are a small portion of the course...yet they require the most attention to keep healthy....and for whatever reason it is difficult to get that across to golfers....golfers who tend to equate great greens with speed and green grass....

[John Kavanaugh]

I am always amazed how hung up on the condition of the greens golfers can get....they are always too slow....too fast...dead...half dead....too sandy...too full of holes etc.etc....to suit their taste.

I get the impression that most golfers join a course or judge a course based soley on the condition of the greens....in the overall acerage they are a small portion of the course...yet they require the most attention to keep healthy....and for whatever reason it is difficult to get that across to golfers....golfers who tend to equate great greens with speed and green grass....

It could be because a golfer takes more strokes on a green than any other single feature.  I don't mind visiting a course with greens in substandard condition for that day but I don't want to join a course with poor greens 24/7.

[Anthony_Nysse]

John....
  Click on the link....Fans are a must to give bentgrass the best chance to survive the humidity and summer heat. How bad would thhings be if they weren't up?

http://gcm.typepad.com/photos/2007_pga_championshi/pgasouthernhills_048.html

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Craig Sweet]

More strokes on a green than any other feature?  I take 2 or three strokes just to get to the green and in my opinion they are the most important strokes I take...strategy wise,etc...putting is just the icing on the cake...in fact,we often play with an automatic two putt rule...one chance to make the putt and then pick up and move on...

What do you consider a "substandard condition" for a green?

[JESII]

...in fact,we often play with an automatic two putt rule...one chance to make the putt and then pick up and move on...

Well then...you just ain't playing golf...


Craig, you stated above with..."yet they require the most attention to keep healthy"[/i]...they are the most important part of the golf course to guys in your business...and (maybe because) they are the most important part of the golf course to those of us that play the game seriously.

[Craig Sweet]

"They are the most important part of the golf course to guys in your business...and (maybe because) they are the most important part of the golf course to those of us that play the game seriously."

So all that other "stuff" between tee and green is window dressing?  The firm and fast fairways,the rough, the pitch and roll of the fairways, the uphill and downhill, the strategic placing of bunkers,water hazards, trees and other physical features? The strategy of where to hit your tee shot, the gambling of cutting the dog leg, the lay up, the ground game??

Personally, I think too much time and effort are spent on greens...that's why I like the one putt and done....there's the line, and you get one crack at it...not two or three or four chances....you either putt it right the first time or not....

[igrowgrass]

John....
  Click on the link....Fans are a must to give bentgrass the best chance to survive the humidity and summer heat. How bad would thhings be if they weren't up?

http://gcm.typepad.com/photos/2007_pga_championshi/pgasouthernhills_048.html

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

How did bentgrass survive in the South before fans?  Things have changed in the last few years with lower mowing heights and demand for fast greens, but people did it.

[Marc Haring]

Sean

I think bent grass in the south is a relatively new phenomenon but I’m a UK superintendent so wouldn’t have full access to all the details.

One thing I will say. I come from an era when the old greenkeepers were often just local artisans who couldn’t play golf and who relied totally on a greens committee for direction. That way costs were kept down.

I was in Atlanta last year and at a high end, high profile venue. I asked the super their what he thought the trends in greenkeeping were as regard the constant search for perfection versus the more natural and economical approach of UK based greenkeeping. What amazed me was that he was surprised at the question. He thought the only way was more and more perfection regardless of cost. He was of course a highly skilled and very knowledgeable man and was clearly the right man for his position but it was almost as if a simple approach that just concentrated on the fundamentals of turf culture was a completely alien concept. It would be a pity if all those old ideas were lost on the new breed of greenkeepers coming into the profession. Maybe some of the older guys are more able to embrace all the ideas and incorporate them in a more holistic way. Perhaps the colleges do too good a job at brainwashing!  

[Anthony_Nysse]

Sean,
  The grass types used on gourses int he deep south are much more heat tolerant now then before. Combine that with  other advantages such as fans, pesticides, handwatering, more aerifying have allowed bentgrass to be located much further south that what it's ideal climate is. Mind you, Augusta has only had bentgrass for the last 25 years, and they can keep the greens alive partially cause they don't have to worry about golf in the summer cause they are closed. Bentgrass is a far superior putting surface than the ultradwafts and to me, it's worth the strain. If a golf course has to overseed and transition, the greens aren't going to be perfect 3 months out of the year anyways, just like bentgrass in the south. many more courses have bentgrass now because of the advances inthe last 25 years. Many of the mid range clubs, because of the time and effort that bentgrass does take, as switching back to an ultradwafts.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

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