[Steve_ Shaffer]

From Bill Huffman's column in today's East Valley Tribune:

Behind the green: Troon North scrambles courses to create new look
Bill Huffman, For the Tribune
Imagine giving the Mona Lisa a face-lift or changing the colors of the Taj Mahal to earth tones. There are some things in life you just don’t do.

That’s why I was shocked when I learned that the nines of the Monument and Pinnacle courses at Troon North Golf Club in Scottsdale are being scrambled to create the “New Monument’’ and “New Pinnacle.’’

Good Lord, had the owners — Scottsdale-based Troon Golf — lost their collective minds? And did they have to put Troon North’s creator, Tom Weiskopf, in a straitjacket before performing such surgery?

Turns out Weiskopf approved and oversaw the transformation, which combined the old front nines of both courses into the New Monument and the old back nines into the New Pinnacle. Troon Golf feels that, if anything, the flip-flop has “improved both golf courses and enhanced the player experience significantly,’’ according to its founder and CEO, Dana Garmany.

Here's the rest of the article:

www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/95204

[Steve_ Shaffer]

No, they are not bulldozing the houses.

[Jay Flemma]

why the hell would they do that???  The pinnacle was just fine the way it was!

New Pinnacle and New Monument?  Barf!

[Jesse Jones]

Now I really want to see these courses.
The new Pinnacle Course is going to be tough.
It has the now "old" #18 Pinnacle and the "old" #18 Monument .
And my favorite Par 5..the "old" #11 Monument..
The new Pinnacle will be missing a long Par 3 and a driveable Par 4.
The new Monument course will have two driveable Par 4's and two long Par 3's and three reachable Par 5's.
They may have started adding turf on #10 of the "old" Pinnacle..
But as a starting hole for the new Pinnacle, watch out.
The hole is tight features some carry on the approach shot and the green is pretty severe.
Expect some slow starts out there.

[Tom_Doak]

It's pretty amazing to me that they think they can take the two courses apart, put them together differently and have BOTH wind up better.

For those who know them well (I've only seen the first 18) -- is this a move to make them more equal in quality, or to give one course the best front nine and the best back nine in hopes of improving its ranking?

[Jesse Jones]

Tom,

I'm really not sure what they are doing here.
I'm also not sure if any of these courses will be better.
In my opinion, they'll just be different.

I just think for a resort player, the Monument Course will be more fun.
The Pinnacle Course will be difficult.
 

[JR Potts]

Tom,

I'm really not sure what they are doing here.
I'm also not sure if any of these courses will be better.
In my opinion, they'll just be different.

I just think for a resort player, the Monument Course will be more fun.
The Pinnacle Course will be difficult.
 

I played one of the two courses 7 years ago...I honestly can't remember one hole.  Needless to say, I won't be back.

[Jesse Jones]

Ryan,

Troon North set the bar for Public/Resort Scottsdale golf in the late 80's.
It was one of the Valley's first and best CCFAD courses.
The design was O.K.
But what really set it apart at the time was course conditioning and service.
However, It has been passed in my eyes by several other Valley designs that are more interesting.

[Joe Hancock]

Tom,

I'm really not sure what they are doing here.
I'm also not sure if any of these courses will be better.
In my opinion, they'll just be different.

I just think for a resort player, the Monument Course will be more fun.
The Pinnacle Course will be difficult.
 

I played one of the two courses 7 years ago...I honestly can't remember one hole.  Needless to say, I won't be back.

Is that because you can't remember how to get there?....

Joe

[Jim Colton]

It's pretty amazing to me that they think they can take the two courses apart, put them together differently and have BOTH wind up better.

For those who know them well (I've only seen the first 18) -- is this a move to make them more equal in quality, or to give one course the best front nine and the best back nine in hopes of improving its ranking?

Tom,

  I think you hit the nail on the head...I'm guessing they are trying to lift the profile of one of the courses at the expense of the other.  Like Ryan, I played one of the courses...couldn't tell you which one or name any of the holes if you put a gun to my head.

[Jon Spaulding]

I would echo Jesse's comments; top it off with a Four Seasons hotel and you have a nice package. I have only played the Monument, some time ago. A few memories:

Shot values very strong; high stress level all day on the tee. Relaxing approaches provided you get off the tee. Uninspired greens in great settings. Beautiful location. Worth the trip.

#10 very similar to Pasatiempo #11; shocking at the time, being a W&M course in the desert.

#11 stressful tee shot and a decision to be made on the approach.

#14 fabulous tee shot, boring hole otherwise

[Jay Flemma]

It's pretty amazing to me that they think they can take the two courses apart, put them together differently and have BOTH wind up better.

For those who know them well (I've only seen the first 18) -- is this a move to make them more equal in quality, or to give one course the best front nine and the best back nine in hopes of improving its ranking?

Honestly tom, this is a head scratcher because I dont think it makes them better, i think the old pinnacle was great but the monument merely pretty good...i think they ruined the flow of the best course they had to eliminate a 1 mile cart ride.

[Forrest Richardson]

My guess is that this is just a natural progression of the courses. I have always suspected that the second course would get some attention. Phil Smith (Weiskopf) has likely taken the opportunity to make some improvements while $$ is flowing and there is some interest.

Also, Troon North was for sale ($90 million) and my second guess is that this may allow for more interest in an eventual sale to be realized in the future.

Aside from the housing, built a few years after opening the first course, these are well above average courses in my opinion. It is likely they needed some replacement areas as they are older that most people might think.

[Jesse Jones]

Forrest,

Do you like the new configurations?

I've always thought the Pinnacle front and the Monument back would be the best combination.

[Forrest Richardson]

I have not seen it or contemplated it. It has been quite a while since I was there. I would trust Phil Smith. I cannot imagine he (or Troon) would do anything but improve the configuration.

[tomgoutman]

As per earlier comment, when they start plowing under all of the obtrusive, wall-to-wall housing, I might feel like paying the hefty freight to play these courses again.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

In this market, there weren't any buyers willing to pay anywhere near the 90M asking price. My guess is Troon Golf decided to spend some money to enhance the courses thereby creating new interest from the winter visitors who had gone elsewhere to spend top dollar prime season rates. Competition can do that. I don't know if the courses are still for sale but buyers were not lined up at that price.

[Forrest Richardson]

A few facts:

There were buyers at the (near) $90 million price tag, but in the end Troon opted to retain the facility for corporate reasons that go well beyond the GCA topic range.

As for the changes, I have it on fairly good authority that Weiskopf was asked to make changes to fulfill an original intent of combining both back nines. I had not known that, but it makes sense if you look at the routings and holes.

Also, the new Pinnacle is intended to be walkable. The walk-at-all-cost crowd here should applaud Troon (and I am sure many may even take credit for pushing this "new found" management approach — walking.)

Like I wrote above, the changes were likely aimed at the golf course experience. From what I can gather, that is exactly what is being done. On another note, I am told that there is no plan to raise rates at Troon North. This is consistent with most facilities in Phoenix — rates have pretty much leveled out except for the totally transformed courses (now more costly) or those unfortunate step children that have been left to rot (cannot compete, except by price.)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I recently played both courses at Troon North and will report when I can. My computer time is limited here in Arizona.

[Matt_Ward]

My main issue with the "new" Troon layouts deals with how playability is enhanced. In my different times at Troon North I can remember a number of holes -- on both courses -- where the straightjacket approach to fairway landing areas can result in "either or" type golf. Either you hit the fairway or its desert bound for likely unplayable options.

Without having played the "new" and "improved" layouts I have to say that updating them may be the vehicle for past players and even new ones to reconsider what is there.

[Ryan Farrow]

My main issue is the $300 dollar price tag for a mediocre golf course. And speaking of straight jackets, thats what should be put on every person who spends that kind of money to play there.

[Dan King]

I played Pinnacle once many years ago. We were suppose to play Monument in the afternoon, but luckily I developed a headache and didn't have to spend any more of my day there.

I thought it was really close to one of the worst golf courses I ever played (lucky for them The Ranch saves them from the bottom of the barrel.) The only thing memorable about it was the drives between holes. Comparing the course to the Mona Lisa or the Taj Mahal is crazed. I think people in Arizona have been in the sun too long.

Why anyone would play there when Talking Stick is in the same area is amazing to me.

Cheers,
Dan King

When the work is complete, both courses will be played exactly as the land dictates, the way Mother Nature intended.
 --Tom Weiskopf (on the changes to Troon North)

[Matt_Ward]

One of the real benefits Troon North had when it came on the scene was that it was one of the first really hyped CCFAD courses in the immediate Scottsdale area. No doubt the layout benefited from the snowbirds who invaded during the winter months.

I liked what Weiskopf did with the original 18 -- the follow-up 18 really didn't float my boat from a real improvement perspective. As I said previously, the straight jacket formula on a few of the tee shots can be quite daunting. I can remember my first reaction to playing the original course and standing on the 1st tee and seeing the encroaching desert area so near to the playing areas. I had to wonder if average players could handle such extremes.

Like I said previously, re-packaging the courses is a smart tactical way to bolster the standing of the courses since they are a bit old in the tooth when compared to the newer inclusions that have come on board since then.

Steve S:

Be curious to know your thoughts on the new Troon combos and how they stack up against Vista Verde. Thanks ...

[Jesse Jones]

Matt,
I'll be playing VV and TN next week. I'll give a full report upon my return.

[Bill_McBride]

Has anyone played the next door neighbor, Golf Club of Scottsdale?  I'd be interested in hearing any opinions.

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