US Am at Olympic

[Kalen Braley]

Wayne,

Thats just short of 160 golfers for each course.  The PGA tour gets almost the same amount thru per course in its first two days.

As for the scores..did you see what the averages were?

Lake average 38/39.2=77.3, Ocean 37.4/37.7=75.1.

You must really be a sadist if you think those course setups weren't tough enough on them...

[Matt_Cohn]

Wayne,
Believe me - nothing was compromised in the stroke play setup. Yes, it will get tougher as the week goes on, but that's just how tournaments go. I hope they never reduce the field.

Jamie,
My friend caddied for Drew and I got to chat with him and his parents. Very nice family. Unfortunately Drew got waxed today. He was 7 down after 10. Drew played badly and his opponent hit some amazing shots.


Wednesday, August 22

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a bag today but that did allow me to watch a number of different players.

The golf course changed dramatically today. It is much, much firmer than it was for stroke play, and the fairways are getting that shiny, distressed look.

Of course, that firmness made the golf course play shorter too. Drew's opponent had 85 yards into the 440 yard #6. Jamie and his opponent both hit it 325 on #9 and 300, into the wind, on #11.

Hole #3 played from the 250 yard back tee but a lot of players still hit 4 and 5 irons.

Also the USGA mowed a strip of secondary rough, around 3", like they introduced at Winged Foot last summer. It was surprising to see them actually lower the rough for the start of match play.

Unfortunately the local contingent was disappointed as Joe Bramlett lost in 19 holes and Randy Haag made a 6 on #18 to lose 1 down.

I watched Jamie Lovemark play today and was very impressed. He's relaxed and calm, he hits it a mile and straight up in the air, and obviously putts and chips very well.

In addition to the old man match (Zahringer v. Wolstenholme), I was also heartened to see the short man match (Ellis v. Cauley) as neither player eclipsed 5'5.

I think they used up their entire supply of K's for the standard bearers in the Kokrak v. Oleksak match. Kokrak really does hit it a long way - 3 iron 260 off #14, for example. He reached #1 with two iron shots. He doesn't really look like a US Amateur winner, but then again, he's already beat the entire field once this week.

It will be interesting to see whether Rickie Fowler is named to the Walker Cup team. He lost in the playoff to get into match play. He's the world's #1 ranked amateur, but wasn't selected in the initial eight.

[Michael Moore]

All hail RICKY JONES from Maine, who defeated top-ranked Dustin Johnson by stuffing a nine-iron on the last.

If you love match play, please check out www.mesga.org. Ricky is blogging about all this, and giving extremely detailed accounts of what happened on each hole.

[Glenn Spencer]

All hail RICKY JONES from Maine, who defeated top-ranked Dustin Johnson by stuffing a nine-iron on the last.

If you love match play, please check out www.mesga.org. Ricky is blogging about all this, and giving extremely detailed accounts of what happened on each hole.

Very Cool!!!

[Mike Benham]

I watched some of the action on The Golf Channel last night and continued to be amazed by the lack of emotion by most of the young golfers.  Not even a smile after a birdie putt, just like a drone, they go on to the next hole.

And I think the bunkers look fantastic on TV ...

[Kevin_Reilly]

To all the guys out there at the event:

Can I get a Cheater Line count?

What percentage of players were using them and how badly did they slow down play?

Admit it:  You know you were thinking about it while you watched...

You're right...I was.    Saw many variations of the triple cheater line.

My guess, based on spotting more than 100 balls in the rough and fairway in my marshal duties, was that the CL was probably used by about 30-40% of players.

[ed_getka]

What pray tell is a triple cheater line?

[ed_getka]

Shivas,
   We'll be out there tomorrow, I will try to time these guys, but unfortunately watching these snails induces narcolepsy.
   The one's that kill me are the guys who take FOREVER to line their ball up and then use the long putter. Give me a break, they are already head cases, obviously can't putt worth a damn, so what is the point of spending 30 seconds lining the ball up JUST right.

[Glenn Spencer]

Kokrak vs. Fathauer should be a WAR this afternoon. Both capable of winning it and both amongst many in Walker Cup considerations.

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

Just imagine how much quicker the matches would go if these cheater-line using dilly-dalliers didn't have to put a few they otherwise did....

But you're the one who refuses to give any putts.

I've got you down as fully in favor of slow play.  Just keep that in mind as you rail against cheater lines and the like.

 

[SPDB]

I've lost track of the work on the Ocean since my last visit to Olympic a few years back. Can anyone tell me what happened to #15? I know it was slated for redesign, which broke my heart because it was one of my favorite holes on either course and one of the more unique holes i've come across.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

The green was moved a bit and the frontal defense taken out. Joel or one of the other guys can discuss it in detail. I have not played it post completion of modifications.

[SPDB]

That's what i remember being contemplated by the work. Shooting it over and through those two hillocks was great fun. Sort of reminded me of #8 on St. Andrews New.

[Peter_Herreid]

Just there with my uncle 10 days ago...

I think the tee of #15 may have been gently shifted toward Skyline Blvd, or maybe just more of the trees "thinned out" in that area.  I seemed to notice a lot more of the traffic this time around.  The approach "up the cleavage" didn't seem much different, but if felt as if the green had been elevated, particularly back right, as there were broad fall-offs and chipping areas back right and I think to the left as well...

#14 was the hole that was massively different, to my eye, since last November!  The green is now way elevated with a very steep drop-off to chipping areas wrapping around the back and right of the green.  Also the aforementioned tree "thinning" seemed to open up #14 to gusts of wind off the ocean much more than I remembered...

Any of the O-Club regulars, please check my memory...

[Adam Clayman]

Watching the show right now, I'm pleased with the views and firm conditions. I can't help but wonder why the O club has a Westchester Co. maintenance presentation? Those bunkers shrowded in long rough, look so ... so... redundant & lonely.

[Kevin_Reilly]

What pray tell is a triple cheater line?

Three parallel lines going around the ball.  Much more accurate than a single cheater line.  One of the guys in the round of 16 had one...I forget his name.  I saw two other examples in the qualifying rounds.

[Matt_Cohn]

Thursday, August 23

Another long day out at Olympic although I was only there for the afternoon 18.

The course played like it did yesterday. It's been dry enough at the end of both days to necessitate some water. It was sunny and quite windy today.

As you may have noticed on TV, the USGA created some extra interest by moving the tees up on #'s 7, 15, and 16.

#7 played about 255 yards to the front and 280 to the hole. The pin was in a very extreme spot in the back-right part of the green. Most guys I saw hit driver and most ended up in very awkward, difficult positions. Good setup and interesting hole.

#15 played around 150 to a tucked back-left pin.

#16 played around 45 yards shorter which would make it 565 yards. The teeshot was very difficult; players had to either lay back off the tee, hit a really big hook, or else hit driver over the trees. Jamie Lovemark combined options 2 and 3 and left himself only 240 to the pin.

However, I think the USGA made a significant mistake with the pin on #16, which was tucked in the back-right corner, completely inaccessible. What's the excitement of making the hole reachable in two, if it's impossible to get the ball within 60 feet of the pin?

The front tee on #16 would be much better combined with a front-left pin position, allowing players a chance for an eagle and some drama.

One other golf course note is that I didn't see a single player in the fourth fairway out of anyone I watched - and I saw several excellent teeshots. The effective fairway width there is about 4 yards - but only if you hit a high draw. If you hit the ball low or with a fade, you simply will not hit the fairway. Is it fair? I say it's not. Good shots and bad shots end up in the same place.

I think the hole plays better with its everyday club setup; and I think it would play best with a USGA setup and a fairway 10-15 yards wider.

The pre-tournament favorite is gone as Jamie Lovemark lost today. He only hit one fairway after the second hole which probably has something to do with why he lost.


I won't be there on Friday but I plan to attend either Saturday or Sunday.

Kevin,
I looked behind the sixth tee again after we talked. The terrain isn't a problem, but they would have to remove three very tall trees to extend the hole by more than about 12 yards.

Adam,
I don't think the bunker/rough combination is presented the way they really intended. I wrote a bit about it on Saturday.

[Sean_A]

shivas:

Just imagine how much quicker the matches would go if these cheater-line using dilly-dalliers didn't have to put a few they otherwise did....

But you're the one who refuses to give any putts.

I've got you down as fully in favor of slow play.  Just keep that in mind as you rail against cheater lines and the like.

 

Huckster

Just imagine how quickly things would go if everybody picked up their opponent's marker!  

Ciao

[Mike Benham]

One other golf course note is that I didn't see a single player in the fourth fairway out of anyone I watched - and I saw several excellent teeshots. The effective fairway width there is about 4 yards - but only if you hit a high draw. If you hit the ball low or with a fade, you simply will not hit the fairway. Is it fair? I say it's not. Good shots and bad shots end up in the same place.

I think the hole plays better with its everyday club setup; and I think it would play best with a USGA setup and a fairway 10-15 yards wider.

Holes like the 4th and 5th are the prime targets for the Benham Theory of Rough at Olympic Lake.

It is my contention that fairway rough is not needed at The Lake and on a hole like the 4th, keep the turf at fairway height all the way to the tree line.  Balls that are too well struck, or off line, will go through the dogleg and into the trees, not stopped by the rough.  Maneuvering in and around trees is much more exciting than slogging out the rough.  The trees at Olympic, especially for the ground game, are much less of a hazard then of days past when the tree limbs went all the way to the ground.

The photos below show how the tree work would allow for recovery shots from within the treeline, making the shot not a boring chip to the fairway but a shot where the golfer might get lucky, have a gap to shoot through.

This theory would work throughout the Lake course and even on holes with substantial width, like #9, golfers can work the ball to tempt the best angle for which to attack their approach shot.

Think of the possibilities ...

I don't think the bunker/rough combination is presented the way they really intended.

Many are curious as to what the intent was ...

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

Just imagine how much quicker the matches would go if these cheater-line using dilly-dalliers didn't have to put a few they otherwise did....

But you're the one who refuses to give any putts.

I've got you down as fully in favor of slow play.  Just keep that in mind as you rail against cheater lines and the like.

 

Huckster

Just imagine how quickly things would go if everybody picked up their opponent's marker!  

Ciao

Sean - assuming you are giving me shit, didn't you mean to say "his own marker"?

Yes, that would make things go quickly!  But don't go down the shivas road to absurdity, my friend.  It's witty at times, but ineffective in argumentation.  

The point here remains that refusal to give short putts does slow down the pace of match play tremendously, because you then have to mark and wait your turn.  It's pretty obvious.

TH

[Matt_Cohn]

Mike,

My understanding from the greenskeeper I spoke to last summer, and a couple of other people, was that the bunkers were supposed to look something like this:



I tried to find a picture of a bunker during the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach, but I wasn't successful.

[Matt_Cohn]

BTW, for what it's worth, the pace of play amongst US Am competitors has ranged from very slow to extremely fast. To say that they're slow as a group wouldn't really be fair.

[ed_getka]

Shivas,
   I saw 5 of 8 golf balls today, they all had a single cheater line (no triples). One was just the preinstalled Titleist one, the others seemed to be hand done.
   Pace of play based on the first group would have been around 4 hours, which for a twosome seems pretty glacial to me. It felt like 6 hours, so I was surprised when they got to #8 in 90 minutes. At least one of these guys today didn't even start getting his yardage or anything until it was his turn to play. I had no idea a preshot routine started with getting a yardage! No wonder I play off 11.
    Shot of the tournament today on #7, Michael Thompson hit driver right into the slot (about 5 yards wide!) between the greenside bunkers, the ball rolled past the front pin down in the bowl, then the ball caught the slope and came back down to about 12 inches for a conceded eagle!!!!

[Jim Nugent]

Shot of the tournament today on #7, Michael Thompson hit driver right into the slot (about 5 yards wide!) between the greenside bunkers, the ball rolled past the front pin down in the bowl, then the ball caught the slope and came back down to about 12 inches for a conceded eagle!!!!

Has anyone ever made hole-in-one at number 7?

[ed_getka]

One thing I forgot to mention yesterday. It was nice to see that at least the first group of the day was enjoying themselves (Thompson vs. Fathauer). They were all business during their shots, but in between there was casual chatting and smiles and the guys seemed to be enjoying themselves.
  Thompson was literally running up the hill on #7 to see where his drive ended up. It was fun to see that kind of enthusiasm.