In what way are you a golf snob?

[Phil McDade]

Wayne:

Three logos is about enough, I think -- one cap, one shirt (your cap and shirt may match, but perhaps not from the same course), and perhaps a few bag tags.

I'm of two minds regarding bag tags -- some hate them, but I think they are OK, as long as they are not obnoxious (e.g., I'd think you'd have one for either Merion or Shinnecock, given your affinity for those courses, but someone with a stack of them -- along the likes of Pebble, the Bandon courses, TPC, Whistling Straits etc. etc. to me is just showing off). I keep two fairly obscure Scottish ones on my bedraggled bag, just for conversation, and permanently removed my one from RTRJr.'s University Ridge near Madison, WI, because I don't think it's that great of a course. But I will proudly wear my nine-hole muni golf course hat on the upcoming Langford/Moreau tour in Wisconsin, as well as my high school hat and shirt.

[Phil McDade]

...a true golf snob would get REVERSE Jans merchandise, since it's been played by all of two people in the known world...

[Michael Blake]

The Crump Cup at PV is the best place to "Multiple Logo Watch."  Especially waiting for the gates to open.  A couple hundred people standing around with their absolute "best" logoed golf shirts and hats to show off.  Logos everywhere of what is seemingly that person's "best played course."  Most have two logos, some three, some even more.  It's laughable.  I think some plan what to wear that day a year in advance.

Even better are the conversations you overhear of great courses people have played. One person trying to outdo the other with their notches on their belt.

Newsflash:  Nobody cares.

I'm definately going to wear a shirt from my father-in-laws crappy local course near Jim Thorpe, PA, "White Birch."


Honestly, wearing two logos is one too much.

[John Keenan]

On the snob front I do not like colored tees. White or natural wood. I do not like red, yellow, green and so on.

One good thing about logo's is that if you do not know the person well it is an easy way to start a conversation.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim Pitner,

Defining Golf as a "Gentleman's" game is neither classist nor sexist.  Let's just chalk it up to your not getting it.

Okay Pat, that sounds reasonable.

I think we can agree that the term "gentleman" excludes women.  The term is defined as "a man of noble birth or superior social position" or "a man of independent means who does not need to have a wage-paying job."  Thus, the classism of which I speak.  

You conveniently left out the most important definition of a "Gentleman", one that's ABSENT any hint or taint of classism.
[size=4x]
"A Courteous, gracious man with a strong sense of honor"
[/size]

That epitomizes how one should conduct themselves on the golf course.

When considering some of the obnoxious snobbery that unfortunately is associated with golf, I think it's best to avoid loaded (not to mention hackneyed) phrases like "a gentleman's game."  

There's no obnoxious snobbery or loaded phrase contained the the definition I provided, courtesy of "Webster's New College Dictionary", and there's no reason to avoid the reference.[/color]

With that said, I obviously agree that golf is a game of character, integrity and good manners.

Which essentially incorporates the definition of a "Gentleman"  [/color]

[Brock Peyer]

I have never been really keen on bermuda greens but I know that I should change that attitude as the new strains are as good as bent.

[Joe Hancock]

I won't play anywhere that doesn't produce pleasant, earthy smelling divots.....

Joe

[Joe Hancock]

I try to avoid places that provide free tees....that cuts into my tee repair business.......

Joe

[Phil McDade]

Yes!

[Roger Tufts]

Even if the design has changed...as long as a course exists in the spirit of a golden age design, I will choose it over the local upscale public.

Yeah, and you've shed upon me completely. I compare EVERYTHING to older courses. This is why I loved Northeast Harbor so much.

[Dan Herrmann]

How about a "Columbia 300" shirt

[Mike Sweeney]

 I doubt if I will go back to Bandon for this reason and it keeps me from pulling the trigger on Europe.

The King of Double Standards lives on! 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Holy...Mike, I was going to ask John on the Bandon thread if we could expect to see him at BUDA this June!

[John Kavanaugh]

 I doubt if I will go back to Bandon for this reason and it keeps me from pulling the trigger on Europe.

The King of Double Standards lives on! 

This was in reference to my hatred of tourists.  I do have to give winter Bandon credit for having a fine bunch of people throughout the resort.  I will also say that you can not go wrong going on a trip with a bunch of guys from the Pacific Northwest.  Despite my somewhat vocal disgust with the model of Bandon IV I should one day wear my crown of double standards enjoying that course too.  (If I can manage not to get banned before it opens)

This is a disturbing thread that I had no idea contained the divorce argument until I went back today looking for this Bandon reference.  Let me take this time to apologize to anyone I hurt by expressing my opinions on the subject. 

[Adam Russell]

Jesus, you people sound OLD....

Which is exactly why I have no patience for anyone over sixty on a golf course. I'm a young golfer snob.

And I hate Northern golfers in Southern climates. And Northern means anyone to the left of LA and north of NC. It is NOT that hot

Everything else flies with me. Throw a club, don't keep score,  just have a good time. So I guess add "good time snob" to that.

[Mike Golden]

I was fascinated reading this thread and finding out that, since I was married for 31 years and then divorced, I was capable of being a good playing partner for that entire time and, as soon as the divorce was final, became an outcast not worthy of even passing consideration.

I think those of you who are lucky enough to have truly great marriages should reflect in the fact that 50% of the marriages in the US end in divorce, of the remaining 50% at least half the people are miserable, and all of us can't be all that wrong.  Staying in a bad relationship for no other reason than it qualifies you to play in your favorite group over the weekend isn't exactly a fair swap, is it?

By the way, amazingly enough, reading the book 'Extraordinary Golf' by Fred Shoemaker and realizing ways to most times be a good playing partner and appreciate the game actually triggered my divorce-it's all in the letter Fred tells you to write about not waking up at age 80 and realizing you have been miserable for many, many years.

[Bob_Huntley]

I was fascinated reading this thread and finding out that, since I was married for 31 years and then divorced, I was capable of being a good playing partner for that entire time and, as soon as the divorce was final, became an outcast not worthy of even passing consideration.

I think those of you who are lucky enough to have truly great marriages should reflect in the fact that 50% of the marriages in the US end in divorce, of the remaining 50% at least half the people are miserable, and all of us can't be all that wrong.  Staying in a bad relationship for no other reason than it qualifies you to play in your favorite group over the weekend isn't exactly a fair swap, is it?

By the way, amazingly enough, reading the book 'Extraordinary Golf' by Fred Shoemaker and realizing ways to most times be a good playing partner and appreciate the game actually triggered my divorce-it's all in the letter Fred tells you to write about not waking up at age 80 and realizing you have been miserable for many, many years.

Mike,

Fred is an amazing young man with the knowledge of an old soul. Gosh, I wish I could swing a club like him.... it's like Bobby Jones and Tiger all rolled into one.

Bob

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,

I don't believe anyone ever said that a divorced man would make a poor golf playing partner.  It is a measure of character not charisma.

[Mike Sweeney]

Jesus, you people sound OLD....

Which is exactly why I have no patience for anyone over sixty on a golf course. I'm a young golfer snob.

And I hate Northern golfers in Southern climates. And Northern means anyone to the left of LA and north of NC. It is NOT that hot

Adam,

You just eliminated Tom Fazio, The Jones Brothers, Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player and Arnold Palmer as potential employers, and since Tiger Woods is building a course in North Carolina that is targeting retiring baby boomers moving south from Northern climates, I guess we should eliminate him too.

You might want to re-think this position.

[Mark Pearce]

I can't stand playing with people who intentionally take more complimentary tees then they need for the day.  Thieves..why not just steal a shirt.

I played at Muirfield on Monday with my wife and father in law. My 11 year old son caddied for me.  Whilst Bill was finding someone to let Lorna into the ladies changing room I got changed and took Cameron into the changing rooms.  As we left to go back outside he stopped to help himself to some tees as souvenirs (I had already taken what I needed for the round).  As he stood with his hand in the pot the secretary walked by.  Cameron froze, like the schoolboy caught in the act he was and the secretary stopped, looked at him and told him to take as many as he wanted.  "We've got thousands, help yourself" were his exact words, I believe.  How things have changed at HCEG.

[Adam Russell]

Adam,

You just eliminated Tom Fazio, The Jones Brothers, Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player and Arnold Palmer as potential employers, and since Tiger Woods is building a course in North Carolina that is targeting retiring baby boomers moving south from Northern climates, I guess we should eliminate him too.

You might want to re-think this position.

Mike,
 We're not talking employment here, just who we tend to look down upon. If my potential employment comes down to my golf snobbery and who I play with (which I think are two different things, right - what I like to do and what I won't do), I must really suck as a potential designer. As far as the my snobbery cancelling out people I would play with, I would put the Northern thing above the old people, like a 1A, 1B option. Everyone who posted in the previous seven pages sounds like a decrepit, Metamucil-drinking old fart. Lighten up; why the hell would you want play a game by yourself? And by the way, if you're changing the parameters of the discussion topic, then aren't you re-thinking the position for me? Plus, I don't get how Tiger designing for the people I don't like playing with would affect my ability to work with him... The ground is the same, the design concept is the same, the personality of the golfer has no impact

[Jeff Spittel]

I'm not.

[Mike Golden]

Mike,

I don't believe anyone ever said that a divorced man would make a poor golf playing partner.  It is a measure of character not charisma.

So let me understand-no matter what the circumstances, the length of the marriage, the presence/absence of children, and anything else, someone who is divorced is by DEFINITION someone of less character than someone who stays married?

Using that yardstick could yield to some pretty interesting conclusions-in the golf-related world, One True Golfing Legend (name omitted for obvious reasons) was a well known frequent cheater in his youth yet stayed married, does that make him of superior character to Freddie Couples, who was divorced from his (unfortunately) crazy 1st wife and stood behind his girl friend (now his wife) during a struggle with breast cancer?

You belong to a very interesting closed society, John, I guess drinking and playing poker in Indian casinos are activities of the highest moral virtue.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,

Did you just try to make a point by saying that Freddie is of stronger character than Arnold? 

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't have a problem with a man who cheats on his wife often, my problem lays with the man who cheats poorly.