Discounts for fast players

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

I don't doubt there are mom & pop situations which do quite well with one or two people performing all the key duties.

The issue is about the places that are a bit bigger than those scattered types and what action, if any, they really implement on a consistent basis.

The CCFAD types don't want to handle slow play for the overwhelming majority of times. They see the issue as no win thing and they have bean counters who are further up in management tell them not to interfere with the high paying customers.

As I mentioned previously, when people do complain they are then offered some type of buy-off comp -- this prevents action against those causing the issue but it also keeps the complaining parties happy because they are bought off with some sort of trinket ranging from the small to large items.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,
Amen to the social misfit problem.
I had to explain to a single why he couldn't go ahead/through the 8 twosomes in our speed slots on sat morning.

The other problem is the riding twosome who insists on playing through the golf course and all those "slow foursomes"

I see more fast play problems than slow play problems.
Always from riders or groups smaller than the rules permit on weekend days.

If you people want to discuss the problem of single players on courses that are not filled to the limits and experiencing 5 1/2 hour rounds, why don't you start your own thread and arrogantly blather on about "social misfits" to your hearts content out of sight of the decent people here.

Are you denying the fact that onesomes and twosomes are a serious problem when it comes to the flow of people around a golf course?

[Bill_Yates]

Jason,
I agree.  I like to see Rangers sitting at a high point of a course who are able to identify groups and reference a matrix that tells them when they should arrive at each tee.  They can easily spot the gaps and take action when necessary.  In general, Rangers don't have the tools or training they need to be truly effective and even if they did, on overcrowded courses there is nothing they could/can do anyway.

[George Pazin]

Are you denying the fact that onesomes and twosomes are a serious problem when it comes to the flow of people around a golf course?

They're the same as anyone else - they're a problem if they want to be.

[Garland Bayley]

...

My problem is with the social misfits who can not find a foresome on the weekends and play as one or two when four of us are trying to have a simple money game.  I just wish they would go around us instead of insisting on playing holes they see hundreds of times per year.

John,

IMO, only a social misfit would call someone he knows next to nothing about a social misfit.

Are these people in any way hassling you about either going faster, or having you let them play through? If they are, you certainly haven't said so.

[John Kavanaugh]

...

My problem is with the social misfits who can not find a foresome on the weekends and play as one or two when four of us are trying to have a simple money game.  I just wish they would go around us instead of insisting on playing holes they see hundreds of times per year.

John,

IMO, only a social misfit would call someone he knows next to nothing about a social misfit.

Are these people in any way hassling you about either going faster, or having you let them play through? If they are, you certainly haven't said so.

People do not have to ask me if they can go through.  The second I see anyone waiting I wave them on or ask them to join us.  I know of no other explanation for why someone would not have a group of friends to play golf with week after week unless they are a social misfit.  They simply need to wait until the course is not crowded or get there early enough to enjoy their alone time.

I simply can not imagine not joining up with anyone unless a person is not comfortable around people.  ie..social misfit.

[John Kavanaugh]

Garland,

I will go so far to say that I believe that courses with adequate practice facilities should ban all singles play 7 days a week.  Singles bring nothing to the game but selfish attitudes and cluster divots.  I think this would be a good first step towards faster play as it would build friendships and teach people interpersonal golfing skills.  Friends don't play slow in front of friends.

[Michael Moore]

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/12/budiansky.htm

"The eeriest thing that came out of these equations, however, was the implication that traffic congestion can arise completely spontaneously under certain circumstances. No bottlenecks or other external causes are necessary. Traffic can be flowing freely along, at a density still well below what the road can handle, and then suddenly gel into a slow-moving ooze. Under the right conditions a small, brief, and local fluctuation in the speed or spacing of cars -- the sort of fluctuation that happens all the time just by chance on a busy highway -- is all it takes to trigger a system-wide breakdown that persists for hours after the blip that triggered it is gone. In fact, the Germans' analysis suggested, such spontaneous breakdowns in traffic flow probably occur quite frequently on highways."

Slow play is caused by chaotic sequences that are far too subtle for us to understand or even observe.

[Richard Choi]

I simply can not imagine not joining up with anyone unless a person is not comfortable around people.  ie..social misfit.

Wow, that is a pretty anti-social statement...

I have played many rounds as solo or twosome. I don't consider myself a social misfit. I have hundreds of social acquaintances and dozens of close friends where we get together regularly.

Out of those hundreds of people, I know 2 others who play golf regularly. You have to remember that popularity of golf has been declining and due to its elitist nature in US, VAST majority of people in this country do not play this game.

I LOVE the game, but I only have 1 other die hard golf buddy. So what are we supposed to do? Not play?

Whenever we go out, the clubs do their best to pair us up with others so that we have a foursome, but that is not always possible. We have followed many foursomes as twosomes and small number of them let us through (if it is early and the course is open in front of them) and most make us wait (which is the only option we really have as the course if full). But it is very very rare that a group in front invites us to join them (which is not surprising as most course do not allow anything bigger than a foursome).

Look, I don't expect foursomes to wave us through if the course is full. But if at least a full hole is clear in front, the "socially acceptable" thing would be to let us play through. Anyone who does not, I would consider anti-social.

[Garland Bayley]

...Singles bring nothing to the game but selfish attitudes and cluster divots.  ...

Yes, that Ben Hogan character didn't bring anything of worth to the game.
A social misfit like him probably should have been barred from the game from the get go.

NOT

[Jim_Kennedy]

JK,
A onesome or twosome isn't really a big issue, no course I know that runs near-capacity tee sheets let's them out at prime times.

[John Kavanaugh]

I simply can not imagine not joining up with anyone unless a person is not comfortable around people.  ie..social misfit.

Wow, that is a pretty anti-social statement...

I have played many rounds as solo or twosome. I don't consider myself a social misfit. I have hundreds of social acquaintances and dozens of close friends where we get together regularly.

Out of those hundreds of people, I know 2 others who play golf regularly. You have to remember that popularity of golf has been declining and due to its elitist nature in US, VAST majority of people in this country do not play this game.

I LOVE the game, but I only have 1 other die hard golf buddy. So what are we supposed to do? Not play?

Whenever we go out, the clubs do their best to pair us up with others so that we have a foursome, but that is not always possible. We have followed many foursomes as twosomes and small number of them let us through (if it is early and the course is open in front of them) and most make us wait (which is the only option we really have as the course if full). But it is very very rare that a group in front invites us to join them (which is not surprising as most course do not allow anything bigger than a foursome).

Look, I don't expect foursomes to wave us through if the course is full. But if at least a full hole is clear in front, the "socially acceptable" thing would be to let us play through. Anyone who does not, I would consider anti-social.

Richard,

Do you play at the same course on a regular basis?  What I recently did when joining a course where I did not know a member was go to the pro and ask him to introduce me to a group of guys with like needs who might need someone to fill out their foresome.  It is a cascading effect as I soon became friends and playing partners with them and their friends.  It may take a bit of time but after awhile guys weed out those they don't like and sow in those they do.  Just don't be afraid to take the worst side of a few small bets until you get your feet wet.  A sandbagger will always be alone except for the odd calcutta.

[Garland Bayley]

People do not have to ask me if they can go through.  The second I see anyone waiting I wave them on or ask them to join us.  

So you are a social misfit by your own definition. You can't get a foursome together so you resort to gathering other social misfits that follow you to make up your foursome.

Ever think that some of those people don't want to join you, but do simply to be polite once asked?

Ever think to observe their behavior to see if they are interested in playing through? Do they hustle to finish the hole to catch you, or do they hang back?

I know of no other explanation for why someone would not have a group of friends to play golf with week after week unless they are a social misfit.  

Thats part of your problem. You have no imagination. Some people have too hectic a schedule to "have a group of friends to play golf with week after week". Not to mention that many good people that might enjoy golf are turned off by likes of you and your attitudes.

They simply need to wait until the course is not crowded or get there early enough to enjoy their alone time.

I simply can not imagine not joining up with anyone unless a person is not comfortable around people.  ie..social misfit.

Like I wrote above, you lack imagination.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

I will go so far to say that I believe that courses with adequate practice facilities should ban all singles play 7 days a week.  Singles bring nothing to the game but selfish attitudes and cluster divots.  I think this would be a good first step towards faster play as it would build friendships and teach people interpersonal golfing skills.  Friends don't play slow in front of friends.

If the courses have the facilities you suggest, they will probably be priced at a point that the tee sheet will not be filled from sun up to sun down. Therefore, they are not likely to find much use for the discussion of this thread.

Furthermore, I doubt there are truly adequate practice facilities anywhere. Tiger didn't learn all his recovery shots at a practice facility.

[George Pazin]

Some of my fondest golfing memories are times I went to my muni as a single. Whether I got thrown in and got to meet some characters, or ended up playing a slow round by myself, I have had nothing but good experiences as a single.

Guess I'm also a social misfit.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Guess I'm also a social misfit.

JVB told me that about you.

NOT

[Kyle Harris]

Most pace of play issues are easily resolved with a starter who can read a clock...

...and stick to a schedule.

[Richard Choi]

George, I will be proud to join you in the GCA Social Misfit Club

I learned the game at the University of Michigan course while I was still a student there. And VAST majority of those rounds were played as a single.

And those days are some of the fondest memories I have.

[Garland Bayley]

George, I will be proud to join you in the GCA Social Misfit Club

I learned the game at the University of Michigan course while I was still a student there. And VAST majority of those rounds were played as a single.

And those days are some of the fondest memories I have.

May I join this club too? Even though I also belong to the TKC (thread killers club)?

[Kalen Braley]

I go out to many courses alone and either join a group or play alone.  I guess that makes me a member as well...

Now we have a 4-some of misfits...all we need is a tee-time ..  

[John Kavanaugh]

It ain't much but if you four can make it together to play Victoria National as a foresome I will pick up the tab and just walk along for the show.  I will also provide free lodging at our log cabin at LCCC.  I just love bringing golfers together.

[Garland Bayley]

It ain't much but if you four can make it together to play Victoria National as a foresome I will pick up the tab and just walk along for the show.  I will also provide free lodging at our log cabin at LCCC.  I just love bringing golfers together.

What credit card number do I charge the airline ticket to?










 

[Kalen Braley]

Hey,

Thanks JK for your generous offer.

If us Misfit 4 can all agree on a date....I'll be there....  

[Phil McDade]

Can I join in the fun? I just got done playing nine in the humidity of a mid-August Wisconsin summer and felt quite adequate and socially acceptable . Two high school kids and their two younger brothers, who had just teed off no. 1, urged me to play alone ahead of them (more proof that younger players have a better sense of decorum than many folks my age...); they even told me where their drives ended up so I wouldn't hit theirs. I even talked to the head pro after my round, who I'm pretty sure was happy to have my $12.50 on what was a quiet afternoon.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Here is an idea. Public courses have marshals. Marshals can observe foursomes that are waiting, and foursome that are causing people to wait. Have the marshals hand out discount coupons to foursomes that are waiting each time they see them. Raise the green fees so that those not earning the coupons are paying more.

Garland,

That's a labor intensive process, one frought with controversy.

Why not merely clock the groups off the first tee, clock them as they exit the 18th tee, with the understanding that groups should finish within ___ minutes of the group ahead of them.
(tee time differential = 8, 9 or 10 minute intervals)

Groups that complete 18 in less than 3:45-4:00 and equal to or less than the tee off interval, get a rebate.

The critical issue is that once one group falls behind, the balance of the golfers behind them can never catch up, so, it's in everybody's best interest to make sure that every group plays at pace.

This way, the individual golfers in the foursome, as well as the field behind them are the policemen, not the golf staff.

It's a simple, yet highly effective system, and, it works in the field.