[Kalen Braley]

Patrick,

I understand what you are trying to get at here but...

Golfers putting pressure on other golfers to speed up can lead to some nasty side effects.  I've been in a couple of groups where this kind of "urging" almost led to fisticuffs.

And I've also been in groups where one or more players would intentionally hit balls while they were still in range to "encourage" them to get it moving.

[Donnie Beck]

I am going to have to go with Barney on this one.. Single and twosomes have no business out on the course in crowded conditions. I would never even consider playing alone or in a twosome during prime hours. You can bet your bottom dollar they are causing a problem out there and I don't know too many muni's that are going to turn down their business. I guess the bottom line is a round of golf is going to take 4 - 4 1/2 hrs.. If you don't have time for that... I would suggest Tony Pioppi's book ...There are many nine holers and par 3 tracks that would appreciate your business.

[Garland Bayley]

Patrick,

I don't understand labor intensive. I am writing about courses where there already is a marshal. I don't understand what you mean by policing. I am suggesting the marshal incentivize not police.

[Garland Bayley]

I am going to have to go with Barney on this one.. Single and twosomes have no business out on the course in crowded conditions. I would never even consider playing alone or in a twosome during prime hours. You can bet your bottom dollar they are causing a problem out there and I don't know too many muni's that are going to turn down their business. I guess the bottom line is a round of golf is going to take 4 - 4 1/2 hrs.. If you don't have time for that... I would suggest Tony Pioppi's book ...There are many nine holers and par 3 tracks that would appreciate your business.

No one is discussing situations where there are singles and twosomes on a course except for Barney's fan club who don't seem to understand what this thread is about. Of course that may be my fault for not making it clear, but I tried and invited you all to start your own thread.

[Garland Bayley]

By the way Barney, the credit card thing was of course a joke and I have no intention of taking you up on your offer.

Sorry Kalen, you will have to find another 4th.

[Andy Troeger]

I can see some arguments against twosomes and singles in certain situations especially at private clubs, but making a blanket statement about them is silly.

Two friends are not allowed to go on golf trips unless they can find two more? Its certainly better if they can be paired up, but that's the courses's issue. If they're that busy it shouldn't be all that difficult.

Garland,
Did you notice my comments about your theory on pg 2 back a bit? I'd be interested to see you address the concerns I mentioned.

[Garland Bayley]

Is this the one Andy?

Garland,
If you think thats the best way to educate the slowpokes and get their attention so be it.

In working with my high school girls team, most of them start as beginners to the game. They start by taking 4 practice swings every shot and hitting it 10 feet occasionally. Before they get to the course, other than making sure they can hit the ball, I make sure they understand the importance of finding the happy medium between concentrating on hitting a good shot and doing it without undue delay. They walk in about 3.5 hours as is the norm for the municipal course that we played on.

I agree with the others that have said that pace of play is directly correlated to how much effort the management puts into their pace of play policies and mainly whether or not these marshalls actually enforce it.

I'd be interested to see if your idea would work. I believe you are suggesting raising rates then giving it back to the speedy players. I think some would go elsewhere due to concern they would not get their money back. It might work if it caught on with a good marketing campaign, but it might be a disaster if poorly implemented.

[Richard Choi]

Single and twosomes have no business out on the course in crowded conditions. I would never even consider playing alone or in a twosome during prime hours. You can bet your bottom dollar they are causing a problem out there and I don't know too many muni's that are going to turn down their business. I guess the bottom line is a round of golf is going to take 4 - 4 1/2 hrs.. If you don't have time for that...

HA! I WOULD LOVE to follow a foursome (as a twosome) that played under 4 1/2 hours during prime hours. I usually have to get out before 8AM for me to play a round under 4 1/2 hours on local tracks. If I get out after that, it is minimum 5 hours (usually 5 1/2).

All I ask is that if you are a hole behind or more, let my group play through. That should apply whether or I am a single, twosome, foursome, or whatever.

[John Kavanaugh]

By the way Barney, the credit card thing was of course a joke and I have no intention of taking you up on your offer.

Sorry Kalen, you will have to find another 4th.

Thanks, you have saved me a ton of money and time and proved my point.

[Donnie Beck]

Here is an idea. Public courses have marshals. Marshals can observe foursomes that are waiting, and foursome that are causing people to wait. Have the marshals hand out discount coupons to foursomes that are waiting each time they see them. Raise the green fees so that those not earning the coupons are paying more.

Garland... No one is hijacking your thread...  You offered and idea of offering rebates.. Barney, several others, and myself made the point that bottlenecks and singles were part of the problem. Just because we don't agree with your idea doesn't mean you have to take your ball and run home!

[Andy Troeger]

Yes...and if you had seen it before and chose it was not worthy of response I understand  

Was just curious...

[Craig Sweet]

From a maintinance worker perspective, the single or the twosome is just as disruptive as the foursome...unfortunately, at my course we dump them on the back nine in the early morning....from 6am until we leave at 2pm its a steady stream of golfers....a round of golf that could be played in 3 1/2 hours takes four hours, and the guys in the pro shop give you the old "so what's your problem, only 4 hours" look....as if 4hours is a"norm"we should strive for...

I like the idea of discounts for fast players, but I don't think it will help...slow players, with ridiculous routines will always be a problem...the golf magazines, the PGA teaching pro's,all encourage having a routine....today while mowing fairways I watched a guy stand behind his ball for 15 seconds...no doubt "visualizing" his shot...then he lined up and pointed with his left hand where he wanted to hit the ball...he took two practice swings, and then knock it about 75 yards....he walked to his ball and did the whole routine again...

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks, you have saved me a ton of money and time and proved my point.

Which point would that be? That I am a social misfit?

[George Pazin]

1 question and 1 statement:

Question:

Are singles and twosomes that prevalent? The courses I play, you are automatically paired up unless there's no one else to go out with you.

Statement:

Again, I don't think most have a big problem with 4 or 4 1/2. It's the 5-6 hours rounds, where you're waiting on every shot, that drives me (and likely others) crazy.

[George Pazin]

Thanks, you have saved me a ton of money and time and proved my point.

Which point would that be? That I am a social misfit?

Obviously, as we're not willing to drop everything and fly out to Indiana to prove some kind of silly point of John's.

[Donnie Beck]

George,

I started out working in the proshop at a public course. My job was to collect green fee receipts from league members during the week and also sit on the 1st tee from 5:15am-3pm on weekends. I can assure you there was a group leaving the tee every 7 mins. I can't speak for others, but I can tell you that the management company that I worked for didn't turn anyone down. We would try to pair them up, but if you paid your greens fees you were getting out on the course as a single, twosome, threesome, foursome, or fivesome....

[Garland Bayley]

Shivas,

I like the way you think. You sell your idea to the resorts willing to make that kind of investment, and I will stick with the munis with my idea.

[Garland Bayley]

George,

I started out working in the proshop at a public course. My job was to collect green fee receipts from league members during the week and also sit on the 1st tee from 5:15am-3pm on weekends. I can assure you there was a group leaving the tee every 7 mins. I can't speak for others, but I can tell you that the management company that I worked for didn't turn anyone down. We would try to pair them up, but if you paid your greens fees you were getting out on the course as a single, twosome, threesome, foursome, or fivesome....

And what problem did the singles and twosomes make?
Did they hit into the groups in front of them?
Did they yell obscenities at them?
Did they yell at you for letting fivesomes on the course?

[John Kavanaugh]

Thanks, you have saved me a ton of money and time and proved my point.

Which point would that be? That I am a social misfit?

Obviously, as we're not willing to drop everything and fly out to Indiana to prove some kind of silly point of John's.

Don't feel like you have to drop everything as the offer stands through the end of 08.  I think you guys could make some new golfing buddies, give me crap to my face, in my home, at my course and on my dime.  I can't imagine more fun.

[Donnie Beck]

link=board=1;threadid=30661;start=105#msg594756 date=1186615566]

And what problem did the singles and twosomes make?
Did they hit into the groups in front of them?
Did they yell obscenities at them?
Did they yell at you for letting fivesomes on the course?

Garland,

We have already covered this........ A twosome slows down the groups they are playing through...

and to answer your other questions yes, yes and yes.

[Garland Bayley]

link=board=1;threadid=30661;start=105#msg594756 date=1186615566]

And what problem did the singles and twosomes make?
Did they hit into the groups in front of them?
Did they yell obscenities at them?
Did they yell at you for letting fivesomes on the course?

Garland,

We have already covered this........ A twosome slows down the groups they are playing through...

Sorry, but we haven't covered this. The twosome is not slowing down the group it is playing through, because they aren't playing through unless the group is already slow.

and to answer your other questions yes, yes and yes.
And you get the same behavior from threesomes and foursomes.
So to be a little tongue in check, your point is pointless

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks, you have saved me a ton of money and time and proved my point.

Which point would that be? That I am a social misfit?

Obviously, as we're not willing to drop everything and fly out to Indiana to prove some kind of silly point of John's.

Don't feel like you have to drop everything as the offer stands through the end of 08.  I think you guys could make some new golfing buddies, give me crap to my face, in my home, at my course and on my dime.  I can't imagine more fun.

John,

Social misfit that I am, I am still capable of making new golfing buddies without your help. You may recall a little GCA outing to Chambers Bay that appeared in these pages. I think I managed to make a buddy or two there.



OK OK so he was just my caddy and he's paid to be my buddy. So What!
 

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,
If you think thats the best way to educate the slowpokes and get their attention so be it.So be it.

In working with my high school girls team, most of them start as beginners to the game. They start by taking 4 practice swings every shot and hitting it 10 feet occasionally. Before they get to the course, other than making sure they can hit the ball, I make sure they understand the importance of finding the happy medium between concentrating on hitting a good shot and doing it without undue delay. They walk in about 3.5 hours as is the norm for the municipal course that we played on. Good job Andy!

I agree with the others that have said that pace of play is directly correlated to how much effort the management puts into their pace of play policies and mainly whether or not these marshalls actually enforce it.Fine, but I suggest moving away from enforcing.

I'd be interested to see if your idea would work. I believe you are suggesting raising rates then giving it back to the speedy players. I think some would go elsewhere due to concern they would not get their money back. It might work if it caught on with a good marketing campaign, but it might be a disaster if poorly implemented.You basically have it right. Suppose a municipality has four courses all relatively easily accessible for it populus charging $30 each. They pick the one with the least time penalty in rough and hazards, raise it to $40 with the opportunity to earn a $10 coupon if they are randomly found to be in position. The other courses are raised to $32.

[Kalen Braley]

Hey John,

I'll still come out to play with you, but you have to join in with me and be a mis-fit for the day..  

To all,

I really don't understand what the beef is with being a twosome.  If it really is popular and full, then they will have no problem pairing you up with another twosome or two singles.  So you are all playing as a 4 some.  But even if you go out as a twosome its still no bother because you can play at a nice casual relaxed pace and don't have to worry about being pushed because that 4-some will always be in front of you.

And if the course in not full and unpopular, then well you don't have to worry about it right??

[Andy Troeger]

Garland,
If you think thats the best way to educate the slowpokes and get their attention so be it.So be it.

In working with my high school girls team, most of them start as beginners to the game. They start by taking 4 practice swings every shot and hitting it 10 feet occasionally. Before they get to the course, other than making sure they can hit the ball, I make sure they understand the importance of finding the happy medium between concentrating on hitting a good shot and doing it without undue delay. They walk in about 3.5 hours as is the norm for the municipal course that we played on. Good job Andy!

I agree with the others that have said that pace of play is directly correlated to how much effort the management puts into their pace of play policies and mainly whether or not these marshalls actually enforce it.Fine, but I suggest moving away from enforcing.

I'd be interested to see if your idea would work. I believe you are suggesting raising rates then giving it back to the speedy players. I think some would go elsewhere due to concern they would not get their money back. It might work if it caught on with a good marketing campaign, but it might be a disaster if poorly implemented.You basically have it right. Suppose a municipality has four courses all relatively easily accessible for it populus charging $30 each. They pick the one with the least time penalty in rough and hazards, raise it to $40 with the opportunity to earn a $10 coupon if they are randomly found to be in position. The other courses are raised to $32.

Garland,
I don't do the color thing...but responses by paragraph...

#2...thanks  

#3 & 4, its a different way at getting at the same thing. While I'm not sure I'm so confident as to iinvest my own my money in the strategy if I were a course operator, I'd be interested to see if it worked and ready to jump on the bandwagon if it did  

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