[Steve_ Shaffer]

Horsham Valley definitely and Woody's possibly. Both attract beginners, kids, seniors and women. Close in real estate is just too valuable. Here is an excerpt from Joe Logan's article in this morning's Philadelphia Inquirer:

On Golf | Twilight time for Horsham Valley
By Joe Logan
Inquirer Columnist

Nothing is imminent, but the curtain is eventually coming down on one and perhaps two venerable local golf facilities popular with kids, beginners, women, seniors and plenty of folks in between.

Two years from now, in July 2009, Horsham Valley Golf Club in Ambler will close its doors for the last time. It is slated for housing development by the David Cutler Group.

And in East Norriton Township, Montgomery Country, although no deal is finalized, word is that Albert Einstein Healthcare Network is interested in an 84-acre parcel that is home to Wood's Golf Center, the driving range, putt-putt and par-3 course popularly known as Woody's.

Here is the rest of the article:

www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20070729_On_Golf____Twilight_time_for_Horsham_Valley.html

[Dan Herrmann]

Ingleside in Chester County was supposed to have closed for development, but was purchased by Caln Township for open space and recreation.

Similar to Reading CC.

I wonder if daily-fee/private ---> municipal is a trend.

[Jim_Kennedy]

So many of these closings seem to be happening to small, unpretentious courses that are near large population bases. They may be 'prime' for development but they are also 'prime' for their open space.
Municipalities have the chance to take them over, but if that isn't happening an owner can look into creating a conservation easement with an IRS approved charitable group. This would give the owner a charitable deduction by which he/she could offset profits when selling, plus, there might be some cash coming from the 'trust' if the land were 'sensitive' enough.  He/she could also keep the business and benefit from a more favorable tax structure going forward.

[JMorgan]

.

[Kyle Harris]

Ingleside in Chester County was supposed to have closed for development, but was purchased by Caln Township for open space and recreation.

Similar to Reading CC.

I wonder if daily-fee/private ---> municipal is a trend.

Dan, what happened with Reading CC... I thought Billy Casper Golf bought the club?  

Does anyone know of other Findlay designs in the Philly area?

Llanerch CC, Tavistock CC and Paxon Hallow GC are all Findlays that have gone through recent restoration work.

Reading CC is still open.

[D_Malley]

reading is now owned by the township it resides in.  they have a management agreement with Billy Casper Golf.  
there is a plan to make both Ingelside and Downingtown into 9 hole courses and develop the other parts of their property.

also Paxon Hollow is not Findlay, it was built by
Franklin Meehan.

[Kyle Harris]

reading is now owned by the township it resides in.  they have a management agreement with Billy Casper Golf.  
there is a plan to make both Ingelside and Downingtown into 9 hole courses and develop the other parts of their property.

also Paxon Hollow is not Findlay, it was built by
Franklin Meehan.

Ahh, thanks Racetrack George. Not sure where I got the Findlay connection then.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The closing of Horsham Valley should benefit other "modest" locals such as Fairways, Twining Valley, Neshaminy Valley and to some extent Limekiln and Bucks County GC unless they are gobbled up by developers who can bank land until the market turns around.

I understand that there was sort of a bidding war between Cutler Group and Toll Brothers for Horsham Valley after the township turned down a "green space" offer from the owners. Cutler Group will build an "active adult" community there so the township and school district will get the tax money without increasing school population.

Woody's is another story. Einstein Medical Center has been looking for awhile for space to establish a suburban branch campus. Their offer might be too good to turn down.

KBM's new Heritage Creek in nearby Bucks County will open in 2009 but I doubt it will attract the same kind of golfer as did Horsham Valley.

[Michael Blake]

I live a couple of miles west of Woody's.  And while it is the most convenient place for me to practice and to take my small kids to play miniature golf, the area will be better served with a new hospital facility.

The nearest hospitals in the immediate area are generally regarded as lousy.  I've experienced them first-hand.

So while I'll now need to drive 15 minutes instead of 5 to a "family golf facility" (Freddy's), I  certainly welcome quality medical care for our area, if a deal is ever struck.

[Dan Herrmann]

With all the contraction, what the heck is Pulte doing building Applecross on US322 in Chester County?

There's also a plan being bantered about to build some kind of world-class mega-club catering to the uber-wealthy not too far from Marsh Creek State Park.

Really strange.  

[Adam_Messix]

I can understand why the Barbin's are selling off Horsham Valley.  They are very nice people.  If memory serves, there is a fair amount of competition in the golf market in that part of Philadelphia.  It's still sad to see a golf course that is doomed to die though.  They own two other courses, Chesapeake Bay Golf Club at North East and Chesapeake Bay Golf Club at Rising Run (FKA Chantilly Manor CC.)

Dan--

You make a good point about Applecross.  However, Golf seems to follow what a lot of chain stores do which is Why fix up what you have when you can build something new somewhere else and create a buzz.  

[Dan Herrmann]

That's so true - there are a ton of strip malls out here in "affluent" Chester County with large vacancy rates.  But they still keep building the darn things.

[wsmorrison]

Dan,

Can you supply any information on the rumored club you mentioned near Marsh Creek State Park?  I guess the land is relatively inexpensive out there and the Brandywine River valley is spectacular in spots.

[Dan Herrmann]

Wayne,
Here's a link from Wallace Township that discusses it:  http://wallacereporter.com/blogs/skip/archive/2007/03/23/board-launches-investigation-of-the-greenfield-proposal.aspx

It's a plan by Developer Albert Greenfield Jr..

From an article referred to in the above link:

A plan to develop the Greenfield property at Little Conestoga, Marshall and Chalfant Roads was discussed by the Board of Supervisors at their Thursday, March 15th meeting.  Developer Albert Greenfield Jr. has now explained his plan to several Township committees.  The project centers on a country club and resort with all amenities, including a PGA Audubon-certified golf course.  He intends to combine this club project on his tract with the quarry site owned by Aqua America.  On the quarry site he plans 175 high end vacation homes priced in the $700,000 range and configured as an English village.  The club/resort would address all manner of fitness, wellness, health spa, restaurant, and activity needs of the community while providing a vacation retreat for the wealthy.

Mr. Greenfield's spectacular vision and enthusiasm for the project may strike observers as a breath of fresh air or as a departure from reality depending on their point of view.  He and his army of consultants and advisors are targeting September to begin construction.  Naturally he was not pleased to hear my estimate of two years to gain project approval nor other Planning Commission members' view that my estimate was optimistic.  He has called on the Board of Supervisors to form a committee to work with his team to develop a plan the Board could quickly approve.

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Dan.  That English Village concept along with a golf course is eerily familiar, though I think it is a moot point now.

[Mike_Cirba]

Does anyone know of other Findlay designs in the Philly area?

JM,

There are a bunch of them, and I'll list the majority tomorrow once I get on my work computer.  

They are in various states of Findlayness, from almost untouched to almost completely revised, but I've been thinking very hard about writing a book about him.

Well, about him and others in turn-of-the-last-century American golf, from the 1880's through the creation of NGLA, Merion, and Pine Valley.

I've been doing research about this era and am finding that there is a story to be told that is simply way beyond our conceptual stereotype of geometric hazards and 18 stakes on a Sunday afternoon.  

The path to naturalness was not a sudden event, but an evolution with multiple people playing part.

The amazing part is that it may be that the Quakers not only founded Philadelphia, but also may have been largely responsible for the creation of the first courses in this country that lay more humbly and reverently on the land.

[Dan Herrmann]

Findlay has intrigue me greatly.  He's partially credited for Coateville, where I used to play.  There are some pretty cool holes there, hidden under the trees.

Was he the Johnny Appleseed of golf course architecture?  Granted, he's certainly no Ross, but the volume of his work, especially given the era in which he worked, is amazing.

[wsmorrison]

The growth of naturalism in American golf course architecture is a topic that has long fascinated me.  I am glad to hear you may be tackling this subject, Mike.  If you like, my files are certainly available to you.  Jim Finegan called me earlier this evening and we were discussing topics to address.  I bet he'd be glad to hear this topic may get some real attention from you.  If you don't mind, I'll let him know when we meet for lunch in the next few weeks.  His records may be a big help to you as well.  He knowledge of the course histories in the GAP is impressive and exceeds the material in the centennial history book.  A significant amount of information was excluded to keep it around 500 pages.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Dan,

He really was, along with Tom Bendelow.

Bendelow worked more in NYC and the midwest.

Findlay, after his earliest course in Nebraska in 1885, worked mostly from Maine to Florida, leaving NYC and the immediate surrounds (and most of upstate NY) to guys like Willie Dunn, Bendelow, Willie Norton, Mungo Park and other Scottish professionals up through about 1910.

Once Findlay settled in the Philly/NJ area in the mid-teens, he built a bunch of courses here after WW I, and continued through the mid-30s.

He did do most of Coatesville, although the club opted to save money...just using his design and doing the construction work themselves.

There isn't a single golfer in the Philadelphia or southern NJ area with any experienced variety in courses who hasn't played a hole designed by Findlay.

[Dan Herrmann]

Just found this nugget about Yardley CC, on gapgolf.org:

Frederick A. Findlay, Scottish-born golf professional/greenkeeper/golf course architect and brother of Alex Findlay, was chosen to create the course. Because most of the acreage covered the higher expanse of a wide and gentle hill, drainage was not a problem. A fine landscape artist who worked instinctively by feel, Findlay had no time for blueprints, claiming that the land was his drawing board. He moved as little earth as possible.



Look at those last 2 sentences!  This syncs well into Mike's premise.

[Mike_Cirba]

The growth of naturalism in American golf course architecture is a topic that has long fascinated me.  I am glad to hear you may be tackling this subject, Mike.  If you like, my files are certainly available to you.  Jim Finegan called me earlier this evening and we were discussing topics to address.  I bet he'd be glad to hear this topic may get some real attention from you.  If you don't mind, I'll let him know when we meet for lunch in the next few weeks.  His records may be a big help to you as well.  He knowledge of the course histories in the GAP is impressive and exceeds the material in the centennial history book.  A significant amount of information was excluded to keep it around 500 pages.  

Wayne,

Thank you very much.   Mr. Finegan is certainly one of my heroes and I'd be honored.

I think one of the very surprising things I've been finding is that significant degrees of naturalism did not just appear in a few revolutionary courses, but were quite apparent and purposefully intentioned in some of the first courses in this country, including the original Merion.

There were a group of fellows who were all discussing and studying this very early on, although the most famous manifestations came a bit later, often in the second iterations of club courses as they moved further from the cities, which is probably why they seemed to suddenly appear on the landscape.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike

Who was the designer of Horsham Valley? I understand it was originally a 12 hole course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Just found this nugget about Yardley CC, on gapgolf.org:

Frederick A. Findlay, Scottish-born golf professional/greenkeeper/golf course architect and brother of Alex Findlay, was chosen to create the course. Because most of the acreage covered the higher expanse of a wide and gentle hill, drainage was not a problem. A fine landscape artist who worked instinctively by feel, Findlay had no time for blueprints, claiming that the land was his drawing board. He moved as little earth as possible.



Look at those last 2 sentences!  This syncs well into Mike's premise.

Dan,

From what I've been able to ascertain, they did it for a few very pragmatic and idealistic reasons;

1) They respected the earth and what was already there with a respect borne of religious passion.
2) They understood that from a functional and artistic perspecive, naturalness wore well and created almost infinite playing variety.
3) Because they often did not have the resources or tools to move significant amounts of earth, they had to "find" holes that worked for golf.  More challengingly in an age before motorized carts, they had to find holes that worked for golf concurrently and in relation to each other.  
4) Many of these men recognized very early that the artifice of many of the early courses was not only ugly, but poor from a playability standpoint.   Unfortunately, they were in the minority in the very beginning, but that soon changed.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike

Who was the designer of Horsham Valley? I understand it was originally a 12 hole course.

Steve,

Horsham Valley (RIP) was designed by Jock Melville and his son Doug Melville  and built in stages during the years 1958-64.

In 1990, a number of changes were made to the course, including the creation of the brutally difficult par three 15th by David Koch and Harry Barbin.

Incidentally, Jock Melville also was the designer of Twining Valley in 1931.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike

I understand that there was another 12 hole course nearby on Susquehanna Road- Pinetown. Do you know anything about this course?

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