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Tony_Muldoon

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One of the great contests or what?
« on: July 22, 2007, 06:36:01 PM »
Loved every moment and I'm exhilarated for Padraig and dejected for Sergio.

Really though I haven’t lived through that many and I'd love to hear how others feel.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2007, 06:46:46 PM »
Tough day on the sofa, Tony? I say better than 2002.

Ray Richard

Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2007, 06:56:12 PM »
I told the wife mid-morning I was going to "watch a few holes" than do errands. After watching everything until the final playoff putt, I got the days activity moving around around 4:00 pm EDT.  I though the drama and golf course were exceptional. Wife thought it was not.

C. Squier

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2007, 06:58:27 PM »
I turned to someone at the club today and said half-jokingly, "if this is how Carnoustie plays, keep the grandstands where they are and we'll see you in 361 days."

Leaderboard was bunched up, but the scores weren't very low.  To me, that said Carnoustie played fair, but hard.  And with that 4 hole stretch at the end?  Great golf.  Not just for spectating, but architecturally speaking too.  10 guys play 18 in 10 different ways.  

Great times!
CPS
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 06:58:58 PM by Clint Squier »

David_Tepper

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2007, 07:01:00 PM »
Putting aside the drama of today's play for a moment, one of the things I like most about The Open is the global nature of the competitors. This year was especially good in that regard. At one point today, the 9 spots on the first page of the leader board were filled by golfers from 8 different countries. I think that is a good thing.

A quick review of the final results show that the top 20 finishers came from about 11 different countries. That makes The Open a true world championship.    
     
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 07:03:57 PM by David_Tepper »

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2007, 07:52:18 PM »
I'll beat Barney to the punch line:

While it was a good contest, the Seinfeld "contest" was better!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

redanman

Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2007, 08:15:53 PM »
I am a huge fan of the Open Championship. Today was fantastic. I feel horrible for Sergio, but just wonderful for Padraig. Carnoustie was as good a venue for theOpen as ever.  16-18 is the finish and it need to be taken in that context.

Also:
Today  Fernando Alonso in the M-M bullied his way past Massa in the Ferrari to win the Euro F1 today at the Nurburgring.  God what a race!

What a day for this couch potato. Perhaps the most enjoyable sports Sunday I have ever had!

TEPaul

Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2007, 08:21:03 PM »
One of the most exciting majors I've ever seen and the strategic course created it.

Larry_Keltto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2007, 08:32:06 PM »
The Open is my favorite tourney of the year, and this was a thriller. I love the way Carnoustie was set up. Many have complained that the setups in recent years at the majors had made the late charges very rare. Exciting to see Stricker fly up the leader board yesterday, and Green today.

Dan Herrmann

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2007, 10:19:30 PM »
Fantastic.

We sat in my living room from 10AM EDT on in golf clothes and sunscreen waiting for a break to hit the road to play golf.  And I have a TiVo.

We watched the whole thing live and loved it.

And, being 50% 3rd generation Irish-American (McGrath), I loved it!

Doug Siebert

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2007, 11:08:10 PM »
I wonder if there is some pollen from the grass or chemicals from the factories in town that causes golfer's brains to quit operating at Carnoustie after a few days' exposure?  Sure, it happens to some extent in the pressure of any major, but we got two guys with Van De Velde style mental meltdowns today.

First Romero on 17 -- I could see trying to hit a wood from the rough, but a freaking TWO IRON?!  I wish the camera could have tracked his ball because I'm really curious what path it followed.  I guess it is the opposite in luck to what happened to John Senden on 18 earlier in the tournament on 18 where he sliced it into the grandstand, ricocheted dead left off a fence across the green at high speed right for the OB, only to hit the OB stake dead center and stay in bounds!

Then you have Harrington on 18.  One could argue that 3W would have been a smarter play there, but he'd been hitting the ball well so I'm not going to begrudge his confidence in his driver.  But to try and reach the green from where he dropped, knowing what happened to Van De Velde in '99 was from nearly the same spot, is just unaccountable.  If he misses left he's OB, if he misses right in the bunker he probably can't get up and down and takes a 6, if he lays up he's got a shot at 5 and can't do worse than 6.  He did really well to avoid the triple there, I would have bet against him making that putt after finding the burn twice on the 72nd hole of a major he'd been leading alone.

It sure had me on the edge of my seat.  I was really rooting for Sergio's putt on 18 in the playoff to drop, it looked really good.  I wonder if Harrington would have stroked that putt as confidently if he knew it was to save him rather than knowing he had the safety net of sudden death awaiting if he failed?
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Michael Dugger

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2007, 11:08:30 PM »
I think Sergio has top 10 ball-striking, or "long" game.

But he can't putt.  You have to be able to make something significant to win a major.

Always have....
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2007, 11:16:31 PM »
I pretty much agree with everyone - great show, hooray for Padraig, too bad for Sergio, I really hope he takes the positives and learns from the negatives.

It's a little much to say he can't putt - you don't get that close by not being able to putt. Sometimes they just don't fall.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2007, 01:29:47 AM »
I couldn't escape the feeling that The Open was what the Masters is touted to be: A back-nine Sunday shootout among disparate characters where eagles and doubles scrambled the leaderboard on a nearly minute-to-minute basis. And when's the last time you saw the pros hit that many long irons?

Great entertainment. Golf as it used to be, and still should be.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2007, 01:48:36 AM »
One of the most exciting majors I've ever seen and the strategic course created it.

Really? I would like to see your definitions of strategic and penal.

No way does this compare to Lefty taking down Els for his first major. This was more like a soap opera, than a sports championship.

I suppose your favorite championship basketball game would be the one where they set the record for lowest shooting percentage by each side.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 01:50:09 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2007, 04:17:08 AM »
One of the most exciting majors I've ever seen and the strategic course created it.

Really? I would like to see your definitions of strategic and penal.

No way does this compare to Lefty taking down Els for his first major. This was more like a soap opera, than a sports championship.

I suppose your favorite championship basketball game would be the one where they set the record for lowest shooting percentage by each side.


The winner and runner up were 7 under for the tournament.  Not too shabby on a very tough course playing as long as it can in pretty miserable conditions.  The winner shot a 67 in the final round.  I think your comments suit your agenda but not the facts.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2007, 04:45:17 AM »
One of the most exciting majors I've ever seen and the strategic course created it.

Really? I would like to see your definitions of strategic and penal.

No way does this compare to Lefty taking down Els for his first major. This was more like a soap opera, than a sports championship.

I suppose your favorite championship basketball game would be the one where they set the record for lowest shooting percentage by each side.


this, sir, is codswallop

...and i also strongly disagree with doug's post about harrington having a mental breakdown on 18 and doing a van de velde... he had to go for that green... he just played two bad shots

Jim Nugent

Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2007, 05:24:16 AM »
It was certainly exciting.  A mixture of great golf, poor golf, and collapses by all three leaders at the end.  For a while there I thought I was watching the U.S. Ryder Cup team in action.  

Sergio again could not handle the pressure.  73 in his final round, on a day that gave up a 64, two 65's, several 67's.  A bogey on the last hole, when par wins the championship.  Remember Ben Hogan and his 1 iron at Merion?  

Carnoustie on Sunday looked slow and soft to me.  Incredible that a player could make 10 birdies in the final round of a major.    Was Romero's wood shot into 17, after he hit OB, as good as it looked?  

I heard the BBC's coverage, and felt its announcers were a big step below those on the U.S. networks.    

 

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2007, 05:36:28 AM »
I heard the BBC's coverage, and felt its announcers were a big step below those on the U.S. networks.    

 

with regards to strategic analysis jim, then you're possibly right... but what you get with the bbc first and foremost is 10 hours a day of uninterrupted coverage.

secondly you get peter alliss who is perhaps the last great british sports commentator still working... his puns and anecdotes and his absolute refusal to bend to political correctness should have you entertained regardless of the quality of golf on show...

...that said, gary lineker is a big step down from steve ryder...

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2007, 08:59:16 AM »
One of the most exciting majors I've ever seen and the strategic course created it.

Really? I would like to see your definitions of strategic and penal.

No way does this compare to Lefty taking down Els for his first major. This was more like a soap opera, than a sports championship.

I suppose your favorite championship basketball game would be the one where they set the record for lowest shooting percentage by each side.


Garland, someday you will have the same realization as me - that a penal-design golf course can produce spectactular strategy if done right.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2007, 10:56:24 AM »
One of the most exciting majors I've ever seen and the strategic course created it.

Really? I would like to see your definitions of strategic and penal.

No way does this compare to Lefty taking down Els for his first major. This was more like a soap opera, than a sports championship.

I suppose your favorite championship basketball game would be the one where they set the record for lowest shooting percentage by each side.


The winner and runner up were 7 under for the tournament.  Not too shabby on a very tough course playing as long as it can in pretty miserable conditions.  The winner shot a 67 in the final round.  I think your comments suit your agenda but not the facts.

Exactly what is my agenda?

I'll give you a fact. The winner and runner up played 18 yesterday in a combined 4 over par.

Now if I only knew my supposed agenda, then I could compare my fact with my agenda.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2007, 10:59:54 AM »
Sean, I think we simply have very different ideas of what strategic means. I would say you are stuck on the traditional meaning, whereas I simply view strategic as meaning being presented with interesting decisions. I think the original, purely architectural definition is just too limiting.

In short, I think courses like Oakmont and Carnoustie require a great deal more thought and planning than damn near every course with multiple fairways, multiple carry options, multiple routes to greens, etc.

Are they the best, or even the best way of designing? Couldn't say myself, I haven't played that many top courses. But I know they require more thought than any other course I've been exposed to.

That's strategy to me.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Brent Hutto

Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2007, 11:09:23 AM »
The field averaged just over 4.6 strokes on the eighteenth yesterday. That's on an erstwhile Par 5 with water in play on every shot. The leader and runner-up played it a total of four times in 20 strokes, about a stroke-and-a-half over the field average. I'd say at the end of the day that hole functioned appropriately to its intended purpose.

Here's a philosophical question. Which makes the better finishing hole, one on which the leader at the end of his final round must find a way to avoid disaster or one on which the chaser(s) must find a way to make up a stroke?

I'd say with a classically half-par hole like Carnoustie #18 you can have it both ways. For a leader who makes five, he has "avoided disaster" because that's not even a full stroke above the field average. But the player a stroke behind him no longer has to achieve a very unlikely three, he can make up a shot with a four that's only a half-stroke better than the field average.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2007, 11:09:54 AM »

Garland, someday you will have the same realization as me - that a penal-design golf course can produce spectactular strategy if done right.

George, someday you will have the same realization as me - that penal and strategic go hand in hand. You can't have strategy without penalty. However, when penalty becomes predominant, then although strategy is still there it is reduced significantly and the golfers are almost always taking the safe choice. Admittedly rain mitigated some of the penalty at Carnasty, but instead of seeing the leaders taking spectacular shot after spectacular shot, we saw them taking safe shot after safe shot.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

PThomas

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Re:One of the great contests or what?
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2007, 11:13:50 AM »
cracking good show, I say

I think 18 is great...made the boys think and you saw a wide range of scores...sure it's hard but what's wronmg with that?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!