Architects Who have No Style

[Adam Clayman]

Recently had the pleasure of playing a course that was litterally built by G-d. The architect had minmal impact on the design as evidenced by how few cubic yards of dirt was moved. If I hadn't been playing in a group with the architect I would never have been able to guess who the architect was.

I suspect this is not a bad thing because afterall it was mostly the hand of G-d. BTW, it was Stephen Kay's the Links of North Dakota at Red Mike.

Any other Archies out there who have a style that is not a style?

Thinking back, Joe Lee never repeated anything enough to form a style, from the limited courses of his I have seen. Agree or disagree?

[SL_Solow]

Joe Lee had a number of repeat features including the "t bone" water hazard.  See Ron Whitten's biography.  I have enjoyed a number of courses wher Lee had significant input including Cog Hill, Pine Meadow and The Hamlet in Delray Beach.  But he moved a fair amount of earth.

[RJ_Daley]

Hey Adam, how is that Red Mike course doing?  It was only about 4-5 years ago that it was on the radar of every dreamer who wanted to get into a golf course operation cheap.  I think it went for something like 450K, all included.  do you have any current pictures?  

[Gary Daughters]

Adam,

That's an interesting question.  Denis Griffiths (Chateau Elan, St. Andrews Bay, Brasstown Valley) claims not to have a style, but to take what the land gives him.

I've played a number of his courses, and they do tend to vary stylistically.  If there's a common denominator it is a solid and challenging design (sometimes "in your face") with tilted, fairly lackluster greens.. that never give you a straight putt.

I don't see how an architect can avoid having a style.  It's like the way you walk.  It's just you.

[Adam Clayman]

Dick, Sorry no pictures. The new owners seem like they have the correct attitude. They seek no immediate renumeration and understand that their love for the game makes breaking  even, a sound long term strategy.

The isolation and scale of views were both great. The course was F&F and the greens were very good. Subtle fairway movement was used quite efectively both vertically and horozontally.

Bunker shapes were not ragged and as I said earlier, the roughs mowlines seemed inappropriate for the Links feel. But, when asked specifically, Dr. Kay said he liked the contrast of texture and color.

Shel, thanks for commenting. I havn't seen enough Joe Lee and I sure havn't seen much since learning about gca. Perhaps a better example would help? Anyone?

[Joel_Stewart]

This is an interesting subject.  I've mentioned architects into different categories, 1st rate to 4th rate.  Maybe I have been wrong and it should be architects with style and architects with no style???

I'm not going to mention any names but there are many architects out there with no style, simply followers.  It might not be a fair statement since budgets and other elements come into play but there are architects with wide bodies of work and they basically have nothing to show for it.  Give me 1 great course or even 1 great hole as something interesting or acclaimed.

[Joe Hancock]

Mike DeVries is renown for his yellow jacket and wide brim hat.....and yes, he actually DID get free soup with it....

Joe

[Gary Daughters]

"Having a 'schtick' in this business goes a long way!"

-- John LaFoy

[Jay Flemma]

Hey Adam, how is that Red Mike course doing?  It was only about 4-5 years ago that it was on the radar of every dreamer who wanted to get into a golf course operation cheap.  I think it went for something like 450K, all included.  do you have any current pictures?  

Red Mike IS links of North Dakota...they renamed it...red mike wasto be the resort that never got built:

see this:

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=335

I have pix here.

[Mark Bourgeois]

One way I have heard this expressed is, which architects most easily resist stereotyping?

I have heard this in the context of two architects: AW Tillinghast and Bill Coore.

Joe Lee might not have had a particular style (not saying he did or didn't) but he definitely had a specific philosophy relating to difficulty which might have led to a stereotyping.  (Courses should be designed for the average golfer and not be difficult -- something like that.)

Mark

[Jeff_Brauer]

So far as I can tell, Fowler had no style which one could point to and say "Ah, Fowler".  

Ciao  

Sean,

Then I suppose it would be difficult to look at the work of a Fowler restoration architect and say the work was "All Fowlered Up?"

The question is double edged.

Many gca's have a poor style, or a average style.  As to ones who have so many styles, that in essence they had none you could pin your hat on, Tillie was said to have no style consistency and I have seen that.  I attribute that to him not getting around or using his own crews as much as others.

Not sure about Bill Coore, who seems to have his trademarks.  I thought Joe Lee had a strong style.  I understand VonHagge has switched styles from his 80's heyday to a softer look.  For that matter, Rees is changing his style - fewer mounds, more traditional - and actually always had both his "new" and "Open Doctor" styles.

Fazio, by virtue of having so many design associates had a wide variety of bunkers when really busy.  The same might be true of other big shops, or any gca who works over decades worth of a career and whose style changes, or one who hits it big mid stream, like Hurdzan.

[redanman]

Re:Architects Who have No Style

My pal Mark is a Fine dresser, always in a neat golf shirt.

I can attest that Ron Forse, Jeff Brauer, Tom Doak, Kelly Moran and George Bahto dress very well. Steve Smyers may be the most dapper of all, though.

However, Tom Fazio looked like he slept in his clothes when I met him.

[Kyle Harris]

Re:Architects Who have No Style

My pal Mark is a Fine dresser, always in a neat golf shirt.

I can attest that Ron Forse, Jeff Brauer, Tom Doak, Kelly Moran and George Bahto dress very well. Steve Smyers may be the most dapper of all, though.

However, Tom Fazio looked like he slept in his clothes when I met him.

Dev Emmet takes the cake.

[redanman]

One way I have heard this expressed is, which architects most easily resist stereotyping?

I have heard this in the context of two architects: AW Tillinghast and Bill Coore.
Mark

The first part is well known, but where could you possibly have read that about C & C?  Surely you jest?

Seriously? You're NOT kidding?

[Mike_Young]

Adam,
I would hope Stephen Kay would take having no style as a compliment.  The ability to know when not to change what is there is a style within itself.   Having no style is a style..I have always considered that the best compliment....some guy once told me i had no class..is that the same thing?
Mike

[Adam Clayman]

I don't think he minded. Afterall, it was really g-d's course. I wouldn't want to tell him he has no style.

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