[John Foley]

Bunkers not golf balls!

On a natural sandy base I would expect no need to line a bunker, but are thier guidlines on that people use for new construction or renovations?

[TEPaul]

In fact there is a real need to line the dimensions of a bunker, or at least that's what most seem to think, although I don't think i happen to be one of them.  

The reason is probably mostly RULES driven---eg one needs to know the line or the point where one can ground one's club and where one cannot.

The Rules read that when a ball is in grass (and such) within a bunker, the ball is technically not in the bunker.

[John Foley]

OOPS my bad. When I say line the bunkers I mean the use of liners, not painting an outline to define the hazard. Sorry.

[TEPaul]

No, bunkers certainly do not need an actual marked line around them. Most people, however, think they do need a distinct demarcation point between what is defined as "bunker" (hazard) and what is not. Clearly the Rules of Golf, willingly or otherwise sort of require that so golfers will know where they can ground their club and where they can't.

John:

If you are trying to make some analogy between a line on a golf course such as OB or Water Hazard used to line up a shot that's not the point of the Rules prohibition of using a line to indicate the line of play or putt. The latter line's prohibition is one put there by the player for that specific purpose.

Futhermore, by understanding the Rulesmakers interpretation of a mark or line put "anywhere" they mean anywhere on the golf course. They make an exception with a mark or a line for this purpose on the golf ball and on the golf club.

Why Shivas fails to recognize both why and how and where they have made this distinction in the Rules of Golf is frankly a little beyond me at this point. Like Pat and some others on here he's just being needlessly intransigence at this point. He may not understand it but everyone else seems to and to have understood it for twenty years since that wording "on the putting green" was removed from Rule 8-2b.

[Jeff_Brauer]

John,

Its getting to the point where most bunkers are lined.  Five years ago, it was an option, now its almost mandatory in new construction.  I have several courses under ten years old (and one only 4 years old) where I am going in and adding some kind of liner to previously unlined bunkers, because the sand has deteriorated so badly from mixing of underlying clays.  I have another where the rocks are just getting to be too much of a safety hazard to play bunkers without liners.

Not sure about the sandy soil sites, but in clay or topsoil, the subsoils (and rocks, if present) migrate up into the sand, make it dirty and muddy, etc.  Even in sand, we would have to presume the local sand was of the same type used in the bunker, and that the Owner hasn't opted to buy Best Sand from Cleveland to get perfect lies, color, etc.

There is something about making the bunker an even  more artifical entity that bugs me.  But, just as we get away from sheep pits in sand stylistically, I guess we have to start building them better when in different areas.

Your big question will be whether to use a fabric liner like SandMat or a solid liner like Klingstone, Sportcrete, etc.  There are a lot of options out there, but none really has a long term track record.  Most seem to favor the fabrics, but I can see the advantages of an actual solid surface, should someone develop one that does work and last.

[John Foley]

Jeff,

Thanks. That is the guidance I was looking for.

A course I know of open less than 5 years is lookign to go back & line their bunkers. I was suprised to hear that and wondered why they never lined them in the first place and if they chose not to was it due to cost (??) or was it deamed not needed at the time. It seems very soon in the courses evolution to have to go in and do somethign that appears major.

I have seen the fabric liners, but not the solid. Could you  work to make a solid surface bunker not so obtrusive?

[Jeff_Brauer]

John,

It depends on sand color.  Klingstone is naturally buff.  I haven't seen the sportcrete in action, but suppose it could be tinted white, buff, whatever.  Most use the white fabrics that match the sand color pretty well, if white.

Cost is an issue.  Our recent bid for 80,000 SF of bunkers was over $400K - although Klingstone is more expensive than Fabric, which would be closer to $3 per SF, not $5.  Part of that expense was some strict penalty clauses for course closure, a tight schedule, and some access limitations.  I figure we might have saved at least $1 per SF without those job conditions.

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