[John Kavanaugh]

then isn't the best test to see who is the greatest golfer a tight course.  If you don't agree that the driver is the most difficult club to hit like an expert then please say which club and how you could modify architecture to produce the most talented champion.

Perhaps you believe the accurate long iron hitter is the most talented....hmmm...what to do, what to do.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JakaB,

Golf is not an isolated test of individual shots, it's a test of consecutive shots.

The drive is unique in that it's the only shot where the golfer is permited to get a perfect lie, vis a vis, teeing it up.

Someone once suggested eliminating tees or tees over a certain length, which might address your issue.

In terms of creating a challenge for the best players in the world, I think you have to place a premium on driving accuracy, and today, I think the only way you can provide that test for PGA Tour Pros is through the presentation of demanding fairways.

[Mike_Young]

John,
I keep hearing tour players say that the driver is so big and straight that it is easier to hit than the three wood so they often choose it now in places where three wood was chosen a few years ago......

[James Bennett]

Perhaps they should narrow the landing area at the REMAX long drive event.

Those guys swing at 150 mph, whereas Tiger is at 130mph.  There must be more to golf than just hitting driver.

James

[John Kavanaugh]

Patrick,

I usually give myself a great lie when I putt.

[John Kavanaugh]

Perhaps they should narrow the landing area at the REMAX long drive event.

Those guys swing at 150 mph, whereas Tiger is at 130mph.  There must be more to golf than just hitting driver.

James

Remax gives mulligans.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,
I keep hearing tour players say that the driver is so big and straight that it is easier to hit than the three wood so they often choose it now in places where three wood was chosen a few years ago......

Somebody didn't send Steve Williams the memo.

[David_Elvins]

then isn't the best test to see who is the greatest golfer a tight course.

John,

At some point fairways become too narrow to see who is the best driver.  For example a 4 yard wide fairway doesnt test anything.

Compared to the 60 yard wide fairways on some courses, maybe 40 yards is narrow enough to test the best driver?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

I usually give myself a great lie when I putt.

Agreed, but, not a perfect lie.

I'd also agree that today's drivers are easier to hit, longer and straighter.

[Justin Gale]

Patrick,

I usually give myself a great lie when I putt.

Agreed, but, not a perfect lie.

I'd also agree that today's drivers are easier to hit, longer and straighter.

And a lie on a tee is perfect? Those darn bits of wood or plastic get in the road all the time. I propose the new 'hover tee' for the ultimate in friction reduction.

[Mark_F]

Why is hitting it straight and long the supreme test of a great driver?

I would have thought it was the ability to hit it high and low when needed/demanded, to shape it with or against a fairway contour or slope, to judge bounce and run so that you could factor a fairway slope or hollow into the equation, to provide a mixture of high tees so that you had to factor in downhill travel to hazards...

[Mark_F]

That's why Seve was a better driver than Calvin Peete.

[cary lichtenstein]

The driver today is much easier to control than drivers in the past. On tight holes, I hit the driver today, whereas before I always went to the 3 wood.

[Mike Sweeney]

I will take Tiger and his putter all day long on any course. With close to 50% of their shots hit with putter...... If Phil makes a few putts earlier in his Sunday round at Winged Foot, maybe he puts his driver away.

Well probably not as it is Phil, but maybe Bones makes the request.

[redanman]

There is no "greatest skill" in golf.  I know players of all abilities rank hack to plus - pairs of them I should say - who have diametrically opposed opinions about the driver

"Easiest club to hit."
"Hardest club to hit."

That's just the start.

Golf is the lifetime passion that it is because it is so multi-faceted.  

THE best test is one that is unfair in many ways because it requires many skills and dealing with many adversities.  PGA Tour events are set to be so fair that they are a joke.  USGA Opens are too narrow of definitions of "test".

The Open Championship allows random negativity to enter the picture and probably comes the closest.

[John Kavanaugh]

The driver today is much easier to control than drivers in the past. On tight holes, I hit the driver today, whereas before I always went to the 3 wood.

The 14 deg hybrid is much easier to hit today than an old one iron.  I and the rest of reality hit fewer drivers today then in the past also partly because of the length of the ball.  Not to mention that a three wood is now easier to shape than a driver...Do some research and you will see the light.  note:  I am excluding southern retirement villages from my data and that round TEPaul saw DLIII play at Pine Valley sometime in the 70's.

[Dan Boerger]

Clubs can be made easier to hit, but that doesn't make the shot easier. One of the real beauties of golf is that it requires large muscle group coordination, small muscle group coordination and mental concentration and stamina.

[BCrosby]

The assumption that the hardest courses select for the best best players is one of those evidence free ideas that's been circulating for decades.

The greatest players in every generation win on hard courses, middling courses and easy courses.

The cream rises to the top. It does so with a frequency that does not seem to be a function of the nature of the course they are playing.

As far as I can tell the only thing really hard courses do is keep winning scores closer to par.

Bob  

[George Pazin]

Your premise no longer holds, due to technical "progress".

[John Kavanaugh]

At least with Pat's help I have learned that the toughest shots in golf are those with perfect lies.  The great thing about being a lousy 4 iron player is that you can take it out of your bag.  This becomes a tougher option with the driver and putter.  

[John Kavanaugh]

One question that I do think will ring true at the end of the week.  If Tiger rarely hits driver but still wins the tournament was he the best driver of the ball?  Is hitting a club shorter and straighter a strategic option brought on by great architecture?

[John Kavanaugh]

It just hit me after five years on this site.  You guys can not deal with being told how far to hit the ball.  This even relates to hitting it shorter than you feel like.  You love wide but hate far.  I guess you really don't love wide either if you don't get enough of it.  You just don't like being told what to do.  I guess I understand that..

[Dan Boerger]

John - Interesting question ... does a drive need to be hit with a driver? Wouldn't any tee shot to a par 4 or 5 be considered the drive.

None of the competitors this weekend care about being the best driver of the ball more than they do the lowest scorer.

[John Kavanaugh]

John - Interesting question ... does a drive need to be hit with a driver? Wouldn't any tee shot to a par 4 or 5 be considered the drive.

None of the competitors this weekend care about being the best driver of the ball more than they do the lowest scorer.

Dan,

I don't think there is a competitor in the field working on their eight iron to four iron in preparation for this tournament.  It is all about driving the ball in play and then putting the ball in the hole.  The meat is on the outside of this bun.

[SL_Solow]

Barney;  Is it your premise that the US Open, or any other tournament, has , as its objective determining who is the best driver of the ball?  The objective is to determine the best golfer that week.  Since the premise of the game is that the lowest score wins, there is no premium on the manner in which the lowest score is achieved.  Thus the course that provides a variety of tests allows players with different combinations of skills to compete and determine which application of skills yields the best results that week under those conditions on that course.  Over time after being tested on a variety of courses in a myriad of conditions we can then judge (or try to judge) which players are truly great.  Long and accurate driving is an important skill which creates tremendous advantages for the player possessing that attribute.  But absent other skills it is not enough to make a great golfer and thus can be overcome.  Similarly great putting creates tremendous advantages but if a player is constantly putting for par or worse with his first putt he won't win anything.  That is one of the great beauties of golf which keeps it interesting and allows players with differing skill sets to compete.  Courses that allow players to use their skills and which do not "force" a particular style of play are, to my way of thinking, the best.

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