[Michael Whitaker]

According to my state's golf association less than 10% of its members EVER play in any organized strokeplay event. They tell me that other state golf associations report the same statistic.

Why do you think so few golfers desire to have their game "tested" in this manner?

[Andy Troeger]

Michael,
I played in about 200 stroke play events before the age of 18. I won a fair amount of them including a few on the state and high school levels, but the grinding required to play such events made me almost want to quit golf.

In the last 7 years I've played in one, the PAT--playing test for the PGA program, and actually passed. I now feel no need to "test" myself anymore and play golf in the manner that makes it fun for me. Not to say I won't play for score with friends for a friendly wager, but nothing more. I don't care if I ever play another stroke play tournament again.

Part of my frustration now is that as a 3 hcp give or take, I'm not good enough to win anything in gross divisions, and don't get enough shots to beat the sandbaggers net. Why bother?

[Phil Benedict]

I did not play that much golf as a kid and didn't belong to a club until I was almost 50.  As such I had already reached middle age before the opportunity to play stroke play events came my way.  I am a mid-to-high single digit handicapper who benefits from equitable stroke control.  I find stroke play to be another world.  Finishing every hole while avoiding a big number is hard to do, particularly when there is no gallery out there to locate errant shots.

I harbour an ambition to enter qualifying for the Senior Am (my index is low enough) but will only do so if I believe I won't embarrass myself.  I have no delusions of ever being good enough to qualify, but I think I would enjoy the experience of playing in a USGA event even at the lowest level.

[David_Tepper]

Michael -

The more Stableford events I play in, the more I realize that strokeplay events make no sense for any golfer with higher than a 6 or 8 handicap.

The vast majority of golfers have double-digit handicaps (me included). For us to go play a ground where every hole MUST be completed is a waste, as there inevitably will be several doubles and/or triples (or worse) on a demanding course with hazards and forced carries. That is how 5 1/2 hour rounds are made.

Stableford is such a better format for higher handicap golfers. Once your net double bogey is inevitable, pick up and move to the next hole!      

DT

[SB]

I'm surprised even 10% play competitively.  

I'm a 13, and all the guys I play with are north of 10 and would never consider playing an event.  Competing against a bunch of strangers just doesn't sound fun.  The last thing I want is to have a stranger celebrating that I suck.

[Brent Hutto]

I think those statistics include any round marked with a "T" on the handicap computer. So it's not just tournaments with strangers or whatever, it also includes any stroke-play events at your club like the Club Championship and so forth.

Still, no surprise to me that very few handicap system participants (and an even smaller proportion of all golfers) find playing it down, holing it out and writing down a score on every hole to be a drag. I myself only do that a handful of times per year at most, although maybe I'd do it more if I were a decent player.

Stableford is IMO the way to play against the field if you're a 14-ish or higher handicapper. The reason strict medal play exists is to provide a way to identify the best player among a field of skilled golfers. And three or four rounds of stroke play is ruthlessly effective at doing that.

[Craig Sweet]

Maybe they "play" golf for the excersise, the enjoyment it brings, regardless of performance, the opportunity to get outside and be with friends, to NOT be doing honey do's all day at home...??

This is just my opinion, and your 10% stat would reenforce it, but these people are the VAST majority of golfers.  They really don't care all that much about who designed the course, or all the fancy archetectural features, and firm and fast.....

These are the 76% who state in survey after survey that they want green grass to play on at a fair price.

[Dan King]

Judge Smails: Ty, what did you shoot today?
Ty Webb: Oh, Judge, I don't keep score.
Judge Smails: Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?
Ty Webb: By height.

Cheers,
Dan King

Dr. Beeper: I thought you'd be the man to beat this year.
Ty Webb: I guess you'll just have to keep beating yourself.

[Tom Huckaby]

I don't play golf... for money... against people....

Ty Webb

One would have a happy golf life living by his teachings.  I know I try to.  My personal experience is a lot like Andy's (minus the tournament wins) - grinding and obssessing got very old after high school, and discovering that golf could be played for fun only with beer involved, well that was all it took, that was the end of my competitive career as well.  And I have been way better for it.

Still though... there is nothing quite like beating back the demons and achieving success in competition.  So the lure brings me back every once in awhile, and I get my ass kicked and go back to my place.  I too am not nearly good enough to compete at scratch, nor bad enough to compete with the middle handicap sandbaggers at net.  So success is very fleeting.

I'd say competition is a great thing if you're a great player.  If you're not, well... there are a LOT more ways to derive enjoyment from this game.

TH

[Phil Benedict]

One of the oddest things I find in golf is that, in my opinion, Jack Nicklaus doesn't enjoy golf per se, but he loves high level competitive golf.  Now that he can no longer play at a high level, he hardly plays at all.  I get the feeling that if Jack wasn't a champion golfer, he would have given up the game long ago.

[Pete Lavallee]

I live for the Monthly Medal! At Balboa Park we have about 350 members, but the City only gives us 100 spots for our monthly tournaments; they fill up within 2 days. Howevrer, out of those 12 tournaments only 4 are medal play, the rest, at the insistance of the higher handicappers, are team type events like fire cracker scrambles and 1,2,3 waltz, ect. It is obvious that the higher handicappers don't want to grind it out. I can't figure out why the pervasive Stableford Stystem used in the UK isn't more popular here in the US. It would certainly make it more fun for those golfers.

[RSLivingston_III]

I don't believe Stableford is viewed as a real scoring system in the US. Just something you do with the wife in club events.

[Adam Clayman]

Trying to stereotype golfers might be harder than trying to stereotype posters.

There's an evolutionary process that leads someone to tournament life.

I'd assume most golfers, as Michael calls them, do not really play enough golf to want to have their games tested. Their egos are clearly at work. Throw in some laziness, not wanting to learn the rules that accompany tourney life, the costs, and you have a lackadaisicle person who plays golf. The enviornment where they play golf is key too. If there's an active tournament schedule and plenty of competitors, eventually every red blooded American who thrives on competition will hear the call, take the plunge, be embarrassed, and, get over it.

[Matt_Cohn]

>Why do golfers not want their game "tested"?

Because most people aren't very good at golf, right?

Who wants to be tested at something they think they're bad at?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think there are different ways to "test" your game.  Like Andy, when I was in my teens and twenties I played a number of club, interclub, and state tournaments.  Later I played in pro-ams.  I hated it but did it because, "I felt I was supposed to."  Now I play in a Tuesday non-stress league at my club, the club championship periodically,  and in a member-guest or two.  I think where my game ets tested the most is when I rate a course and play with the club pro.  i am aware that he is watching my game to see if I can hit the ball well enough to judge his course of which he is proud.  i have had many pros comment," I had one rater out here who didn't even break 90.  How can they rate my course?"

The other way I test my game is when I will play alone in the evenings.  I'll set some score that I must shoot to win the Open.  Usually it is against Palmer, who has already posted a score.  It is a fun and a no stess way to see what I can shoot.  I realize that this is not tournament play and may not even count as "testing" my game but for me it is the only way I want to play anymore.  

[RSLivingston_III]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if handicaps in the US had to be based entirely on tournament rounds.
Lots of pissing and moaning for sure, but would courses start offering medal events for members and regular visitors to participate in?

[Jim Sweeney]

RAlph Livingston: Stableford is in the rules book; until recently there was a stableford event on tour; many clubs I know have an annual stableford event. I would agree that stableford is rarely if ever used in casual rounds, but ai do believe it is seen as a legitimate scoring system (despite the fact that one is not penalized for triple bogeys and worse.

Golf associations are keenly aware that there is a perception that they favor better golfers by offering top level tournament opportunities which are accessed by that 10% of their members. Many run flighted net events that serve hgher handicappers.

[Adam Clayman]

Ralph, The state associations would lose 90% of their revenue.

Why people join the association and not utilize the handicap card is beyond even me.

[RSLivingston_III]

RAlph Livingston: Stableford is in the rules book; until recently there was a stableford event on tour; many clubs I know have an annual stableford event. I would agree that stableford is rarely if ever used in casual rounds, but ai do believe it is seen as a legitimate scoring system (despite the fact that one is not penalized for triple bogeys and worse.

Golf associations are keenly aware that there is a perception that they favor better golfers by offering top level tournament opportunities which are accessed by that 10% of their members. Many run flighted net events that serve hgher handicappers.

I know it is, but the vast majority of golfers out there think it is a watered down scoring method for club events. At least that is what I have heard from players over the years.
Maybe it is viewed differently in different parts of the country.
I like stableford and have played in quite a few events, but mostly in the UK.

[Phil Benedict]

The other way I test my game is when I will play alone in the evenings.  I'll set some score that I must shoot to win the Open.  Usually it is against Palmer, who has already posted a score.  It is a fun and a no stess way to see what I can shoot.  I realize that this is not tournament play and may not even count as "testing" my game but for me it is the only way I want to play anymore.  

Tommy,

I think you'd get a lot more respect around here if you beat Tiger head-to-head.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ralph:

The effect your suggestion would have would be pretty much what Adam says, as the vast majority of golfers who have handicaps now would cease to bother.  I think Matt Cohn nails it as to why this is... people play golf for a lot of reasons, most do suck at the game relatively, and so most don't want to test something they know they suck at.  It would be like me entering a Spanish spelling bee.  I could do it, but what's the point?

TH

[Jon Wiggett]

Michael -


The vast majority of golfers have double-digit handicaps (me included). For us to go play a ground where every hole MUST be completed is a waste. That is how 5 1/2 hour rounds are made.

Isn't that the idea of the game, to hole the ball out in as few shots as possible? And 5 1/2 hour rounds are due to slow play not strokeplay.

[Gordon Oneil]

Ralph, The state associations would lose 90% of their revenue.

Why people join the association and not utilize the handicap card is beyond even me.

How about supporting the game of golf?  I don't know in what state you live but I'm fairly confident that my state association does just a bit more than run the tournaments which I do happen to support.

BTW, in Florida, the FSGA's $80 entry fee to one of the state am qualifiers (or mid-am, match play, mid-senior, senior AND the net event)  covers the green fees for the qualifier and one practice round per day for up to a week (after noon on weekends) before the event AND usually the fee for the mandatory cart (pace of play you know).  They hold 8 or so around the state at some pretty darn good courses that otherwise limit access.   The $135 entry fee for the actual event, once you've tested your game and qualified, covers as many as two or three practice rounds, up to four tournament rounds, with the mandatory cart included.  If this $80 per entrant and $215 per qualifier amounts to 90% of the association's gross revenues, considering all of the costs involved, please tell me how they stay afloat so I can apply some of their principles to my business.
Must be the dues.
Last BTW, you wouldn't have that handicap card if it weren't for the course rating and/or slope that it is based on, PROVIDED by your friendly state golf association.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The other way I test my game is when I will play alone in the evenings.  I'll set some score that I must shoot to win the Open.  Usually it is against Palmer, who has already posted a score.  It is a fun and a no stess way to see what I can shoot.  I realize that this is not tournament play and may not even count as "testing" my game but for me it is the only way I want to play anymore.  

Tommy,

I think you'd get a lot more respect around here if you beat Tiger head-to-head.

Actually, I play Arnie as he plays today.  I have, however, did beat Tiger a few nights ago between 2 and 5 AM.

[David_Tepper]

Jon Wiggett -

Sorry, but holing out in the fewest shots possible is NOT necessarily "the idea of the game" in all circumstances. In matchplay, the idea is to hole out in fewer shots than your opponent on every hole. Once it is apparent you cannot be your opponent on any given hole, you can pick up your ball and move on to the next tee.

DT

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