Muirfield Village - 18th best course in the USA?

[Shane Gurnett]

I have not seen it in the flesh (only on TV), so I am interested in opinions on the course and perhaps why it is ranked by Golf Digest so highly.

Especially why GD have it ranked ahead of Pinehurst #2, Bethpage Black, Prairie Dunes etc etc.

What are the architectural features of Muirfield Village that warrant a ranking of 18th best in the USA?

[cary lichtenstein]

Political considerations have partly helped it achieve its high ranking.

[John Kavanaugh]

Political considerations have partly helped it achieve its high ranking.

I'm not arguing the postition of the course but I would like to know when Nicklaus started kissing rater ass.  It is not a difficult access either so I don't get the "political" take.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bill,

i like evey Digest and Golfweek rater I have ever met.  I trust each and every one to decide for themselves which course they prefer. (note: There are a few raters on this site that I have not met.) I don't believe they buy into the hype.  I simply think they rate the courses they like most higher than the ones they don't.  If anything, hosting a regular PGA event hurts a course more than it helps.

I hope you have noted the fall of Shadow Creek...It is off the list in 25 years.

[John Kavanaugh]

My opinion above does not mean the ratings are correct, I am only saying they are not political.

[Andy Troeger]

Before we turn this into a GD thing lets not forget that GW has it #7 Modern and GM has it #23 overall. If you want to bash the course so be it, but it has a comparable ranking in all three publications.

From walking the back nine only, I don't question its rating. #11, 12, 14, and 18 impressed me.

[Jeff_Brauer]

It's a very good golf course, plays exactly like good players think a course ought to play,  is in excellent condition, has some tournament history, and has been tweaked based on tournament history, a la Pinehurst, Augusta, etc. to be even better.

Like any ranking, you could drop it ten or twenty spots personally, and members would be insulted, but it would still be a very good golf course.  It is in the right neighborhood, even if you think it could be located "a few streets over."  Like Andy, I think the consistency of the rankings speak to its overall quality.  

Also, its one of the few top courses I have played on separate occaisions separated by many years and I wasn't dissapointed the second time around, as I think we all are on some "pretenders" which I took as a good sign that it was as good as I thought.

[Jeff Doerr]

After reading the thread, I thought I'd check the Muirfield profile...it looks like one that needs to be refreshed one of these days.

[Matt_Ward]

Shane:

The best course in Ohio is in the Columbus area -- it's just not located in Dublin.

Try the Dye masterpiece The Golf Club -- rarely discussed in anything more than passing here on GCA -- a true and first rate layout -- a tour de force design.

[Dan Kelly]

Adam Scott is tearing it up today.

9-under through 13 -- having just missed a 5-footer to go 10-under.

I wonder how Jack would react to having Muirfield Village join the ranks of courses that have accommodated a 59.

And how would the rankers react?

Update: 10-under through 15, having just missed a 6-foot eagle putt.

Bogey on 16. No 59 from Scott today.

[Phil McDade]

Shane:

The best course in Ohio is in the Columbus area -- it's just not located in Dublin.

Try the Dye masterpiece The Golf Club -- rarely discussed in anything more than passing here on GCA -- a true and first rate layout -- a tour de force design.

Matt:

Isn't the Golf Club really, really, really exclusive, and hard to get on, and members there sort of hog it to themselves (their perogative, of course) and are wary of lots of visitors? I, too, have heard very good things of the Golf Club, and have never met anyone or met anyone who's met anyone who's played it, which might account for its low GCA profile/mentions.

[John Kavanaugh]

Funny thing about Ohio is that people only seem to have negative things to say about great courses.  I live right next to the state and have never played there myself.  Something is missing from that state and I can't put my finger on it.

btw...20% of the posters on the Wie thread have played The Golf Club...It is no harder a get then any other.  Just takes patience and presence.

[John Kavanaugh]

I think it might be time for locker rooms to stop putting names on lockers.  I always makes me a little ill to see an architect or famous golfers name on a locker.  It really isn't hard to remember which locker is yours since most of us did it in high school.

[John Kavanaugh]

I really object to Dr. on my locker ........

Good for you.  I think I am going to request my name be replaced on my locker with my initials.  It would not be wise to use a member number as that could lead to false charges and initials seem to be the best option I can currently think of.

[Pete Lavallee]

 I think I am going to request my name be replaced on my locker with my initials.  

Will you be using JK or BF?

[John Kavanaugh]

As funny as it may seem my God given initials are JBFK.  I'm starting to think that may even be more pretentious than a full name so I am considering other options.  My middle name is a family name that starts with B and my confirmation name is Francis...It is a long way from Barney Frank but too close for comfort.

[Andy Troeger]

Shane:

The best course in Ohio is in the Columbus area -- it's just not located in Dublin.

Try the Dye masterpiece The Golf Club -- rarely discussed in anything more than passing here on GCA -- a true and first rate layout -- a tour de force design.

Matt:

Isn't the Golf Club really, really, really exclusive, and hard to get on, and members there sort of hog it to themselves (their perogative, of course) and are wary of lots of visitors? I, too, have heard very good things of the Golf Club, and have never met anyone or met anyone who's met anyone who's played it, which might account for its low GCA profile/mentions.

The Golf Club is very private and not interesting in hosting tournaments, events, etc. Its also the finest golf course I've played, so its unfortunate in that regard that it is seen by so few. With only having walked MV (and being very impressed by it) I would still agree that TGC is likely the best in Ohio.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

For all the info -- important and trivial -- that's spent on a small range of courses - it amazes me how TGC simply gets little attention.

Arguably, it's the best Dye I've played and you won't see all the other "added" elements that became part and parcel of the Dye courses that have come in the last several years or so.

Unfortunately, out of sight can often out of mind.

A pity.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played both MV and The GC a number of times.  MV has undergone numerous changes over the years and I have grown to love it.  It is a good test for the higher handicap and challenging for the better player.  It has all, but #10, downhill tee shots, which may be the most satisying tee shot there is for the average player.  The green sites have just gotten better over the years, and the fairway bunkers arre much improved, especially #17.  

Yet if I had my choice I would play TGC any day of the week.  It is a wonderful course.  I don't think it will test the best players in the world any better than MV, but for the me the various holes are a a blend of terrific holes.  The 18th is scary, however.  I would hate to come into it one shot ahead.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm going to have to say that based on what I am seeing on TV that Muirfield looks like an obsolete design style.  A horrible site for a modern course.  I'm sure I would rather play Dismal River.

[Tim Rooney]

Columbus has a revolving opinion of the position of its' top three(Mv,Scioto,TGC);however,my favorite is MVillage w/o a weak or letup hole.The fairways wide allowing shot making to well bunkered greens.Jack always disliked uphill elevated greens, the exception #18.You folks are a little critical w/o playing/experiencing this course.Wade Hampton rated above Mv is very suspect;additionally,though Crystal Downs is within my top (10),I would rate MV higher.Probably the old preference, Chocolate or Vanilla?

[Brad Klein]

MV, 8th best in the country but only 4th best in the Columbus, Ohio area.

[Tom Roewer]

MV, 8th best in the country but only 4th best in the Columbus, Ohio area.

I totally agree Brad!!!  Maybe even tied for 4th!!

[Tim Rooney]

Tommy, I know a wealthy endowed,  good player, who is a member at (5) Cols clubs, resigning the TGC lamenting 2many par4's,driver/5 iron.The top Cols 3,are a mixed choice.I feel the TGC provides an outstanding collection of 4's,and perhaps the greatest 3/shot par 5(#14) I've played.Trully a Special Place.  

[Mark_F]

Important questions from a Melbournian...

Does it have a great short par four, and a great short par three?

Also, wouldn't the fact that it plays like a good player wants it too, as Jeff Brauer said, be something to hold against it?

Is that what Tom Doak had in mind when he said that Nicklaus put perfect sightlines and perfect turf ahead of any consideration of natural character.