Old Tom Morris Turf Dykes

[Matthew Hunt]

I was reading my copy of "The Evolution of the Links at Royal County Down" and I was reading about the Turf Dykes that Old Tom liked to put on the flatter parts of his courses. The most preserved examples are to the right of 18 on the No.1 and on 2+17 on the No.2. I also believe that the diagonal Cross Bunkers on 4 on the No.2 might be bunkers set into a Dyke.

These hazards were created by digging a trench, using the earth to build a wall and then cover it with Turf

I love these hazards an wanted to know did Morris or any one else build more of these?

Has shaping and Golf Course Construction progressed too much to use these?

Does or could the Minimalists use this as a bit of a compromise for earth moving?

[Sean Walsh]

Matt,

Any idea whether the dykes were pre-existing or created purely for the Golf Course?

[Matthew Hunt]

Sean, They were created on flat land for golfing perposes. Usally at driving distance or fronting the green. I can show you some when your over (I'v replyed to your IM)

[Paul Stephenson]

I'm not sure how big these turf dykes are and the pictures on the net I've found don't seem to have them in the shot.  But...

This was a long time a ago, but I remember playing Barrow Golf Club in Cumbria and seeing something very similar to what you describe.  To the uninitiated 16 year old they looked like grass barriers about 3-4 feet high, running across the fairway, placed strategically right in the landing area.

Course was built in 1922, by whom I have no idea.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Matthew,
I seem to remember seeing something of which you speak on the Jubilee Course.

[Bill_McBride]

Sound like the cops that form the OB lines inside Hoylake, around the practice field.  Those were definitely man-made, as they were very straight.

This is the cop that runs the length of the right side of #1 (Open routing #3) at Hoylake:

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill,
 That's part of the old race course isn't it?

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, can't say for sure, I wasn't around in those days.  

By the way, that photo is of Captain Goodale looking quite disgruntled as the U. S. team of McBride and Disher finish chopping up the hole to go 2 down in last year's Buda Cup foursomes.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Judging from this, it more then likely is the formers portions of the race course.

From the Hoylake Website:

The Hoylake links can be, by turns, beautiful, uplifting, awe inspiring and, on occasion, soul-destroying. They were created to be a demanding test of golf and remain so, and they lie at the very heart of the history and development of golf in Great Britain.

Built in 1869, on what was then the racecourse of the Liverpool Hunt Club, Hoylake is the oldest of all the English seaside courses with the exception of Westward Ho! in Devon, which was established just a few years earlier. Robert Chambers and George Morris were commissioned to lay out the original Hoylake course, which was extended to 18 holes in 1871. This was also the year in which the Club was granted its Royal designation thanks to the patronage of His Royal Highness The Duke of Connaught.


For the first seven years of its life the land still performed its original function, doubling as a golf course and a horse racing track – indeed, echoes of this heritage can be found today in the names of the first and eighteenth holes, Course and Stand, while the original saddling bell still hangs in the club house. Once the horses had been dispatched to pastures new Hoylake began to take its place in the history of golf in general and of the amateur game in particular.

[Matthew Hunt]

Paul that is exaclty what I am talking about. If it was built in 1922, it must have not be confined to Tom.

Tommy as this was also an Old Tom design they probably Turf Dykes, in fact irmember seeing them in photos. Bill, That is them with the hollow and all. I should know dis butdid Tom Morris design Hoylake?

In the future watch out for these when driving at a Hunt design near you!  

[Mike Benham]

"Dyke" or "Dike" ?

[Matthew Hunt]

It says Dyke in the RCD book.

[Rich Goodale]

Interesting.

There is a dyke about 50 yards short of the 3rd at Dornoch which doesn't look natural, but does add to the interest of the hole.  Wonder if Old Tom built that....

[Chris_Clouser]

Are these charming or adding interest solely because they are on links courses or because Old Tom built them?

I remember a while back some people on here bemoaning the use of the same thing on inland courses in England at one time.  Also, if I remember right some other famous guys seem to dislike the turf dykes used by the likes of Tom Dunn in the early years of English golf architecture.  Let's see what were their names....?  OH!  That's right, Simpson and Mackenzie.  

I don't have an opinion either way, but curious why turf dykes on a links course may get a free pass, but those on an inland layout get condemned by critics when neither is natural to the site and just a construction technique from that era of architecture.  

[Matthew Hunt]

Chris I would like to say that I liked them before I knew what they were or who designed them.

[Bill_McBride]

I think that's George Morris, not Old Tom Morris.

It was indeed the old race course, apparently, and the square outline of the cops remains to this day to demarcate the OB inside the course.   I don't know if it's fair or unfair, it's just what it is.  Golf in the UK is cool beyond description!

[Bill Gayne]

I've seen several of these in Ireland. I didn't realize they were dyke's until now.

Darwin in "The Golf Courses of the British Isles" writes extensively about the cops at Hoylake and how they come into play. To quote: "Along the left-handed side runs a sandy ditch beneath a turf wall with absolutely precipitous sides, and woe betide the man whose ball lies tuck up hard under the face of that wall; he will be lucky to if he can get it out backwards, forwards, or at all."

[paul cowley]

This is just too weird.....I am still on my way back from a new course in Maryland farm country and I laid what I was calling turf covered stone walls that strategically interfaced with the open fields found on the site......as an option to bunkers.

TomP is helping on this course, but due to obligations elsewhere could not be there.... I feel its a valid design concept, regardless of whether the walls or 'dykes' were there originally, and I think has future merit.

Until this thread I had no idea that it wasn't a new idea.
Seems I'm in good company.

Which brings me to the purists who think that if a hardscape structure.....wall, ruin, or whatever, was not pre existing then it is therefore discredited as part of the design validity of a hole.....well... I think you are a bunch of 'I am going to take the safe route regardless', head in the sand, Yo Yo's.

And if I could find a way to keep you off our courses....I would.

[Brian_Ewen]

There is a small Tom Morris 9 holer close to me called Tarland.

There is original turf dykes there , which were mentioned ( with a photo) in Robert Kroeger's book .

[Bill_McBride]

This is just too weird.....I am still on my way back from a new course in Maryland farm country and I laid what I was calling turf covered stone walls that strategically interfaced with the open fields found on the site......as an option to bunkers.

TomP is helping on this course, but due to obligations elsewhere could not be there.... I feel its a valid design concept, regardless of whether the walls or 'dykes' were there originally, and I think has future merit.

Until this thread I had no idea that it wasn't a new idea.
Seems I'm in good company.

Which brings me to the purists who think that if a hardscape structure.....wall, ruin, or whatever, was not pre existing then it is therefore discredited as part of the design validity of a hole.....well... I think you are a bunch of 'I am going to take the safe route regardless', head in the sand, Yo Yo's.

And if I could find a way to keep you off our courses....I would.

Paul, you should have used that line in Forrest's thread a couple of days ago!  

[Bill_McBride]

Here's another Royal Liverpool photo, this time of #1 (#3 Open routing) from the 2005 Open.  That is a serious OB line down that cop with the 90 degree turn!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Panhandle Bill,
Just like horse racing, I knew those were good odds!

[Mark Pearce]

There was another cop hard by the left side of the 7th green (now the 9th) with OOB to its left.  Made it a very tough tee shot and the hole was heavily criticised (you could miss the green by a couple of yards and be OOB.  

[paul cowley]

I think this design devise has value when used and incorporated as part of the internal strategy of a hole.

I think their semi diagonal placement, especially when used in place of bunkering, could be daunting.....a raised form of cross or cape strategies.......with a throwback nod to the steeplechase hazards. [TomP....earth to TomP... ].

....but then again maybe I'm just queer for this sort of thing.
It probably would be nothing compared to short bunker right, long bunker left....a historically proven success.

[Bill_McBride]

I think this design devise has value when used and incorporated as part of the internal strategy of a hole.

I think their semi diagonal placement, especially when used in place of bunkering, could be daunting.....a raised form of cross or cape strategies.......with a throwback nod to the steeplechase hazards. [TomP....earth to TomP... ].

....but then again maybe I'm just queer for this sort of thing.
It probably would be nothing compared to short bunker right, long bunker left....a historically proven success.

Paul, it wasn't the cop itself that was daunting, it was the OB just on the other side!    And inside the course!  

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