Shivas's cheater line

[Dan Kelly]

What I noticed was that I was naturally lining up way right on every shot and putt.  I think at the very least the cheater line may be an excellent training aid.  

Just curious:

Are you left-eye-dominant?

How could I tell?

See (no pun intended) http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm

[TEPaul]

Dan:

This is OT (thank God) but I should also say my respect for the people at the USGA Rules desk totally spiked one time within the last decade when I was playing in the semi-finals of the Maidstone Bowl which is better ball match play.

On the 4th hole something happened which was immensely interrelated and complex and the state of the match was thrown into question apparently until this complex Rules issue could be unraveled and resolved.

Our opponents believed (and insisted) that the state of the match had to be resolved before we teed off on the next tee. I knew enough about the Rules to convince them that the Rules did provide for the match to continue until the issue was resolved by the tournment committee at Maidstone.

Luckily, there was a Rules official (an asst pro) for the tournament committe on the 6th tee so I got all of us on the same page as to the facts of the situation to present to the Rules official for a potential ruling on the state of the match.

When we presented the whole thing to him he basically admitted it was too complex for him to rule on and he radioed it in to the head pro Eden Foster who got into the Rules Book on the computer.

About a hole later Eden radioed back with a ruling and I questioned it and appealed it. He then radioed back that he was going to call the USGA's Rules desk and present the whole thing to them for confirmation of his ruling and that we should proceed on with our match basically playing under two different "state of the match" scenarios.

About a hole or so later he radioed back that the USGA Rules desk agreed with his ruling and that the ruling was final.

So we played on under that ruling.

About two holes later the Rules official on course came back to us and said that Tom Meeks had happened to walk by the desk of the USGA Rules guy and overheard his conversation with Eden Foster and that Meeks disagreed with the ruling. He said Meeks looked up Maidstone's number, called them back and said that the Rules committee at the USGA was going to sit down and go over the entire situation and that we should play on again under two "state of the match" scenarios until they came back with a final ruling.

Under the scenario that would have ruled in favor of my team we actually won the match on the 15th green and we all shook hands under that scenario and proceeded to cross the bridge to the 16th tee to play on under the other "state of the match" scenario in favor of the other team.

Before we teed off on the 16th the on course Rules official came up to us and told us the ruling had been decided at Far Hills in favor of my team and that the match was officially over on the 15th.

And this was all on a Sunday morning! Those guys up there at Far Hills in the USGA Rules Committee worked that situation for a couple of hours and at Maidstone they worked it longer than that.

How can you not love that kind of thing? I love those people up there at Far Hills in what they do that way and I feel the same way about Eden Foster at Maidstone, his tournament committee and his guys on course.

It was a beautiful thing and it took an initially and potentially very contentious situation early in the match and put us all in the same boat and in the hands of the ultimate Rules authority to work it out objectively within the minutae of the Rules in an immensely complex Rule situation.

It even created a bond that will be ongoing between the two teams in the match and all the players on them in that situation that none of us will ever forget in how and how well it finally got resolved.

To me this is what real golf is all about. That was as good as it can get, in my book.

So maybe the Rules of Golf aren't ideally written and maybe some of them aren't all that logical but there is a process available for all players to come to an amicable resolution, and the USGA and their constantly manned Rules Committee desk offers all of us that. And that's a very good thing.

[John_Cullum]

Here is what pisses me off. Yesterday I played golf and used one of those new Pro V1's with the arrow on it(coincidentally, one I found on a famous redan hole while playing with one of the primary protagonists of this thread). Every f--king time I lifted my ball and replaced it, I had to think about all of this nonsense.

[TEPaul]

Dan Kelly:

John Kavanaugh does not have a dominant eye. Both of his eyes are about equally myopic. I thought you realized that years ago.

John Cullum:

And let it be said that your entire moral fiber has been seriously called into question by that super minority (who IM Shivas) who know deep in their hearts and minds that you're nothing more than a common cheater for using one of those golf balls that way.

You better go buy yourself an indulgence, pal.

By the way, I'll offer you a pretty good deal on a pretty spiffy indulgence. I'll even negotiate the price.

[Dan Kelly]

How can you not love that kind of thing?

I do love that kind of thing. More than I should, probably.

And I really, really love your story -- though I see two problems with it:

(1) You don't tell us what the rules question was.

and

(2) Only a few severely strange souls are still reading this thread (I, myself, skipped about 400 posts in the middle of it), so the rest of our brethren here will miss your story! Which they shouldn't.

[Dan Kelly]

Here is what pisses me off. Yesterday I played golf and used one of those new Pro V1's with the arrow on it(coincidentally, one I found on a famous redan hole while playing with one of the primary protagonists of this thread). Every f--king time I lifted my ball and replaced it, I had to think about all of this nonsense.

You know how you can get a song stuck in your head?

Happens to me all the time. Pretty much every day.

This morning, for reasons absolutely unknown, "Shenandoah" was rattling around in there as I was grinding the coffee beans.

The Germans call a head-stuck song (in German) an "earworm." Lovely term -- probably even in German.

I think this Cheater Line will be an eyeworm for everyone who has read this thread!

That's comedy.

(The only effective remedy I've discovered for an earworm is to sing the offending tune in the style of Bob Dylan. Does anyone know how Dylan putts? Better or worse than Shivas?)

[TEPaul]

"(1) You don't tell us what the rules question was."

Dan K:

You're shittin' me, right?

Do you really think I would put that ultra complex Rules situation on this thread and website with the likes of Shivas on here?

Jeeeeesus Keeerist, man, he would be all over that USGA ruling pointing out one inconsistency and illogic after another, maintaining all the while that he knows what its resolution should've been better than they do.

We'd be on this thread for the next two years if I did that.

Frankly, I doubt I can even remember all the relevent particulars of that situation. It was about the most inter-related and complex one I ever saw.

[John_Cullum]

John Cullum:

And let it be said that your entire moral fiber has been seriously called into question by that super minority (who IM Shivas) who know deep in their hearts and minds that you're nothing more than a common cheater for using one of those golf balls that way.

You better go buy yourself an indulgence, pal.

By the way, I'll offer you a pretty good deal on a pretty spiffy indulgence. I'll even negotiate the price.

That's the problem, I had to go out of the way to make sure I couldn't see the line. I finally started turning it so  I hit the ball on the name. I AM NOT A CHEATER by ANY man's standard.

By the way, that's good news that you can negotiate plenary indulgences. My primary consultant on matters of Catholic dogma died in March, and I need a new go to guy on matters of faith. You're the man.

[Rich Goodale]

Amen, Brother Kelly

Brother Paul, can you enlighten us, please?

[Dan Kelly]

You better go buy yourself an indulgence, pal.

Or a carbon offset.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ok, I am way left eye dominant.  What does that mean and what can I do about it?

[PThomas]

WARNING:  THIS THREAD IS MORE THAN HALFWAY TO THE NUMBER OF POSTS ON THAT MERION THREAD!!!!

[TEPaul]

"That's the problem, I had to go out of the way to make sure I couldn't see the line. I finally started turning it so  I hit the ball on the name. I AM NOT A CHEATER by ANY man's standard."

JohnC:

Oh really? Well, how the hell do we know that? How can we be completely sure? More importantly, how can the "super minority" be sure you didn't use that line to align your ball for the purposes of indicating a line for putting? I think it sounds like Shivas's logic and his "super minority" of IMers about Rule 8-2b have got you firmly by the balls.

And now you're trying to tell us you had to go out of your way to not even SEE that line? I'm not sure that's believable enough which would now make you not only a potential cheater but a common gutter-snipe LIAR as well.

You may even be culpable for just handling a golf ball like that during play.

You may have some serious problems pal. I don't know whether you should consider quitting golf in repentance but I can pretty much guarantee the price of my indulgence just went up bigtime.

By the way, would you mind explaining to me the true reasoning and rationale behind the fact that you picked up a golf ball like that and actually put it in play?

[TEPaul]

"Ok, I am way left eye dominant.  What does that mean and what can I do about it?"

Do I have to explain everything to you John?

It means you shut your right eye and with your 'way left dominant' left eye you can now plumb-bob the shit out of the correct line for putting and line up that "cheater line" so precisely it's unlikely you will ever miss a putt again. This may also mean you are capable of being the world's most accomplished cheater. Congratulations!

[TEPaul]

"Brother Paul, can you enlighten us, please?"

Ricardo the Magnificent:

You know i can but it would help if you told me about what you would like to be enlightened.

[John Kavanaugh]

"Ok, I am way left eye dominant.  What does that mean and what can I do about it?"

Do I have to explain everything to you John?

It means you shut your right eye and with your 'way left dominant' left eye you can now plumb-bob the shit out of the correct line for putting and line up that "cheater line" so precisely it's unlikely you will ever miss a putt again. This may also mean you are capable of being the world's most accomplished cheater. Congratulations!

Great, so now I line up my cheater line and then stand behind the ball with one eye closed.  The best thing about yesterday was that on my first 18 with 15 non cheating holes I posted my typical 81.  Since I only post 18 holes scores my cheater line induced one over 37 went by the wayside...Member Guest para-mutual here I come.

[John_Cullum]

By the way, would you mind explaining to me the true reasoning and rationale behind the fact that you picked up a golf ball like that and actually put it in play?

Certainly. I rely on a little book called "Principles Behind Playing Golf on the Cheap" by Tom Huckaby. I would get you a copy but they are very hard to find

[Dan Kelly]

Ok, I am way left eye dominant.  What does that mean and what can I do about it?

I don't know about that.

I asked because my left-eye-dominant daughter tends to aim slightly right both on full shots and on putts.

I haven't yet figured out how to help her stop -- beyond telling her to aim an iota (or maybe a jot) left of the line she sees.

[TEPaul]

"Great, so now I line up my cheater line and then stand behind the ball with one eye closed."

No, you silly rabbit. You stand behind your ball and plumb-bob the correct line to the hole and then you get your caddie to align the cheater line on the golf ball to the correct line to the hole while you're plumb-bobbing that correct line to the hole. Plumb-bobbing the correct line to the hole while at the same time aligning your cheater line on the golf ball to that correct plumb-bob line to the hole would be a pretty neat physical trick for which you may need to consult a cirropractor immediately following the round.

[Dan Kelly]

Brother Paul, can you enlighten us, please?

Brother Goolade --

Pssst. I don't think he remembers.

And who could blame him?

Fraternally,
Brother Kelly

P.S. "Goolade" sounds like the punch to a kids' joke: "What is a ghost's favorite summertime drink?"

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

From a historical perspective one can understand how 8-2 b evolved, but, all that was before the cheater line existed.

The USGA needs to reexamine the issue.

I find the current wording open to interpretation, such that the USGA could rule that the cheater line violates 8-2 b if they wanted to go that route.  If they don't, a rewriting of
8-2 b, followed by a clarifying decision would resolve the issue.

At what erosive point will the USGA step in to protect the spirit of the game, if not the game itself ?

[A.G._Crockett]

Patrick,
Don't I remember reading in a previous thread that you are (or were) using a Rife 2 bar putter?  I have used that putter, and currently use a Ping Craz-E.  Aren't the alignment aids/marks on these far, far more significant that anything that could be done to the ball?  Should the USGA rule that there can be no alignment marks on clubs as well?  At what point does the whole thing become absurdly legalistic on a cost/benefit basis?

This is a serious inquiry, btw.

[John_Cullum]

Definitely a cheater line in play

[John_Cullum]

For what it's worth, I read about a guy named David Edel who has a very sophisticated putter fitting system. One of the things he analyzes is whether to place any alignment mark on the putter. Apparently, he often finds that an alignment mark causes problems for the player, or so they say over at Bombsquad.

[TEPaul]

Would you just look at the face on that kid?!?

If I've ever seen a face and a look more nefarious than that one I'm not aware of it.

I'm a student of physiognamy and I can spot a natural born cheater in a heart-beat by just looking at their face. That kid looks like she's out to raise cheating in golf to a whole new level and perhaps completely destroy the game just for spite.