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Garland Bayley

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2007, 10:25:12 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on June 23, 2007, 09:37:07 AM
...
You can always take a picture of your design with a digital camera.

All those smiley face icons and no duh while sapping your head.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Foley

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2007, 12:57:41 PM »
Suprising no commetns from last weeks Golf Week article talking about the winners. Just checked online and did not see it posted. The winner, Bo Links,  had a nice alternate fairway design (w/ a drivable green option) through some sead-side dunes. Very nice rendering also.

Our (and hometown boy!!) John Lyon was mentioned as having submitted something, but was under the legal age to enter!!

One other point that struck me was only 64 entries? I would have thought they would have recieved hundreds!
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Integrity in the moment of choice

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2007, 01:23:47 PM »
Quote from: john_foley on July 10, 2007, 12:57:41 PM
Suprising no commetns from last weeks Golf Week article talking about the winners. Just checked online and did not see it posted. The winner, Bo Links,  had a nice alternate fairway design (w/ a drivable green option) through some sead-side dunes. Very nice rendering also.

Our (and hometown boy!!) John Lyon was mentioned as having submitted something, but was under the legal age to enter!!

One other point that struck me was only 64 entries? I would have thought they would have recieved hundreds!

What Golf Week article was that? Why would it be in Golf Week when the contest was done by Whitten for the Golf Digest companies?
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Pazin

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2007, 01:39:18 PM »
I think John meant Golf World, there's an article in this week's issue on the winning design. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet myself.

If I had to guess regarding the lack of entries, I'd say most were scared off by the "drawing in your own hand" part and the fact that drawing was part of the criteria. Given The Good Doctor's own stated belief that technological advances would result in superior modern courses, I don't think he'd have a problem with computer-aided drawings.

I'm guessing Mr. Whitten and/or whoever came up with the rules was looking to not give computer savvy folks an unfair edge, but he/they instead gave the edge to folks who can actually draw. Maybe that's how it should be, but then it's a design illustration contest, not a design contest.

I'll get off my soapbox now. :)

I'll try to post my entry one of these days - sorry about the delay, Ryan.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2007, 01:58:29 PM »
Does the article appear online anywhere?

With respect to 64 entries, I believe Whitten has a team of assistants that have guidelines to only give him ones that meet certain criteria, so he may have only seen 64 entries of the thousands that must have come in.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Foley

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2007, 02:09:07 PM »
Sorry - I meant Golf World and it is not online.

As for the 64 entries all it said was that the contest recieved a total of 64 entries. Nothing about valid or invalid or final reviewed list. Just 64 entries.

Interesting thing about the by-hand note. Of the 4 entries they show they are very very well represented artistically. It's tough to tell them from a computered rendered hole.
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Integrity in the moment of choice

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2007, 02:11:13 PM »
They put drawing ability in the scoring. I knew that definitely would be points against me.

I find only 64 entries amazing. They said past contests have received 1000s of entries.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

TaylorA

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2007, 11:32:31 PM »
Quite frankly, I wasn't overly impressed by the winner. I thought Richard Fletcher's entry was far more impressive, well thought out and had many, many more options.

Looking at Links' design, it features a double fairway along an oceanside cliff top. The centerline hazard are dunes, and the green is wide, but shallow and surrounded by bunkers. The design claims that there are three options (it's really frustrating describing a picture) - playing to either the left fairway, the right fairway or driving the green. Here's where I think the hole doesn't quite add up for me. The hole plays 375 yards from the tips. The dunes cut off the entire front entrance into the green, meaning the only way you could drive the green from the tips would be to belt it at least 330 yards on the fly to carry the dunes. The hole has no ground game option to reach the green or really anyway to land a ball short to run up on to the green, which is rather bizarre since it's oceanside - one would think it's rather windy there. Considering the green is so shallow, there is no way even a well struck (monstrous) drive could possibly hold the green, and the sand traps directly behind the green, along with a 10 yard opening in front of the green mean that this really isn't a drivable par 4.
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Matt_Cohn

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2007, 01:06:18 AM »
Is this online anywhere?

Bo Links? That sounds like a Swedish course.

It brings to mind Sandy Lyle when asked about Tiger Woods years back replying, "No, I haven't played there yet."

I think I'd say the same if asked about Bo Links.
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2007, 12:29:56 PM »
So that we have them all in one thread, I am posting John Lyon's design here too.



George,

If you lost track of the thread, here it is. Now's your chance to post your design (said the other procrastinator).  :)

If anyone has the mag with the winning design and can scan it and post it, I would appreciate it.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2007, 12:35:13 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on July 13, 2007, 12:29:56 PM
George,

If you lost track of the thread, here it is. Now's your chance to post your design (said the other procrastinator).  :)

@!#$%@!#$!@$@#$.

!@$#!@#$^%#$%&!$@^.

 :)

I'll try next week.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kyle Harris

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2007, 05:31:14 PM »
In the interest of my "me too" attitude here goes. Something with which I've been toying for a bit...

Contour Interval: 5 feet (just on 3 shown, this is a rough concept)
Distance from back tee to turn point: 280 yards
Everything else roughly to scale. The green is pushed up and benched into a left to right sloping hillside with the back right, right side and front right falling away from the center of the green.

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Joe Hancock

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2007, 05:47:54 PM »
Kyle,

Why would the fairway extend beyond the middle contour line? The approach from long and right has a bunker to negotiate.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Kyle Harris

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2007, 05:52:34 PM »
Temptation on subsequent plays. The slope is reachable from the tees and the possibility of using the slope for a turbo boost has always been an appealing feature to me. Yes, a flip wedge over a bunker can be difficult, but such is the beauty of temptation.

Also, for the higher handicap, it provides an option to get closer to  the green without rough being the only option, and if that higher handicap player manages a good drive, provides an option to go for the green or bail out right.
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Joe Hancock

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Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2007, 05:56:40 PM »
So the hole is sloping from tee high to green low. I guess that might tempt a bomber, but what would the lie be from long right? Downhill, with a flip wedge is tough.

The high handicapper will take his or her chances with going for the green and dealing with the rough on the next shot, rather than play safe down the right and have to deal with sand. Few high handicappers embrace sand like a low handicapper might.

Good discussion....

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Kyle Harris

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2007, 06:00:42 PM »
Agreed Joe about the discussion, and yes, high tee, low green - way to be specific Kyle.

As with a lot of things, temptation and ego tend to work against a golfer, and often times the most straightforward decision is the best. I like the idea of choosing challenges and the golfer being able to "pick their path" in terms of what sort of things they can over come.

In that regard, this hole is also meant to challenge the learning curve. A wise high handicapper may avoid the approach over the bunker, but another high handicapper may be in the "fairway is always good" crowd. You just never know.  ;)

For those who have played there, the tee shot is a bit motivated by the old configuration of the 3rd hole on PSU's Blue Course.

I had initially sketched this out with pencil and paper, and there is a bit more room over the two fairway bunkers than in my MS Paint rendering.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 06:02:13 PM by Kyle Harris »
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Ryan Farrow

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2007, 09:52:23 PM »
Kyle, looks like someone needs to learn how to use Photoshop.
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Kyle Harris

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2007, 09:56:09 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on July 13, 2007, 09:52:23 PM
Kyle, looks like someone needs to learn how to use Photoshop.

May I have your copy?

I really just need a scanner so I can get my hand renderings here.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 09:59:04 PM by Kyle Harris »
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2007, 09:56:58 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on July 13, 2007, 09:52:23 PM
Kyle, looks like someone needs to learn how to use Photoshop.

Ouch...

But Ryan, why would Kyle want to use Photoshop on a MS Paint image?...... :P

I'd show ya my drawing, but the napkin keeps jamming up the copier......

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ryan Farrow

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2007, 09:59:53 PM »
Joe, whats a copier?
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2007, 01:36:20 AM »
Ryan,

Technology won't help Kyle's design.  ;D

I am afraid the Lido committee would have dumped in the trash on opening. Doesn't even attempt to meet the criteria and intent of the contest.
 ;)
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ryan Farrow

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2007, 02:08:49 AM »
Garland, the funny thing is, I think that is what happened to mine. ;D
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Kyle Harris

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2007, 07:40:37 AM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on July 14, 2007, 01:36:20 AM
Ryan,

Technology won't help Kyle's design.  ;D

I am afraid the Lido committee would have dumped in the trash on opening. Doesn't even attempt to meet the criteria and intent of the contest.
 ;)

I didn't even look at the criteria. Just posted one of my latest doodlings/ideas.
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2007, 10:36:58 AM »
Kyle's design looks frightening similar to mine (frightening for him, I imagine).
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kyle Harris

Re:2007 Lido Contest
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2007, 10:47:33 AM »
Any excuse to get out of posting, eh George?
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