Trevino or Ballesteros ?

[James Bennett]

Ginger, for a date.

Mary Anne, for life.


ps, thanks for the Trevino quotes, they are truly illuminating and a new window into the persona of a great player.

James B

[Steve Lang]

 

Lee Trevino, humble roots, humble man in success.  

Let's see some Seve quotes on his peers... did he think he had any?

[John Kavanaugh]

If Trevino was so hot why is he now dead money and Seve is an international draw.  A peasants time at the table is at the owners discrection.  Seve owned Trevino and permitted to him fill his belly from time to time.  

[Steve Lang]

   maybe 18 years ?

[jeffwarne]

Seve on the other hand, probably never hit two drives shaped exactly the same let alone trying for the same distance.

Brock,
You clearly never had the chance to watch Seve in his prime.
He didi not hit it all over the lot that frequently the way his play of the last 15 years leads many to believe.
He had wondeful trajectory amd curvature control.
When he won the two Masters he drove the ball very well with 2-3 exceptions.

[Jim Nugent]

If Trevino was so hot why is he now dead money and Seve is an international draw.  A peasants time at the table is at the owners discrection.  Seve owned Trevino and permitted to him fill his belly from time to time.  

Seve owned Lee?  They mostly played in different eras, with hardly any overlap.  One result is that Lee had to face Nicklaus in his prime, while Seve only saw the tail end of that.  How would Seve have fared, if Jack had been terrorizing the tour the way he did when Lee played?  Easy to believe Seve's record would not have been as good.  Which makes Lee's record stronger still.  

[Allan Hutton]

As a self confessed Seve fan, take this in stride, however I thought this quotation from Greg Norman no less was quite revealing....

"When you have a good lie but you need to make the ball climb quickly and stop quickly, here's a sort of trick shot to try. I learnt it from the game's finest shotmaker, Seve Ballesteros. It's played from the same address position as a basic bunker shot: open stance, open, laid-back clubface, ball positioned off the left instep."

From the Shark's own website.

I remember seeing another quote from Greg but I can't seem to find it.  Along the lines of how he was awed the way Seve could hit a 60 yard slice or hook at will to a target...(In his later years..a 60 yard slice away from a target  )

[Craig Van Egmond]

As a fan of slow and steady wins the race, my preference is Lee Buck Trevino.

Yes, Seve was the candle that burned brighter, but the flame is now gone. His attitude and gamemenship somewhat tarnished his rep for me also.

Both men dug their games out of the dirt and both are deserving of all the allocades that they get.

[Jim Colton]

I give the edge to Trevino.  That would be one entertaining match.

The thing that has amazed me about Trevino even more than his brilliant shotmaking is how he wears his hat so high on his head.  He's the only guy I know that can wear a hat without actually wearing a hat.  How does he do it?

[Phil Benedict]

I give the edge to Trevino.  That would be one entertaining match.

The thing that has amazed me about Trevino even more than his brilliant shotmaking is how he wears his hat so high on his head.  He's the only guy I know that can wear a hat without actually wearing a hat.  How does he do it?

I think having a thick head of hair is the key.  Lee's hair provides enough support whereas follicle-challenged guys like me use our skulls to support the hat.

[David_Tepper]

By the way, the Golf Channel was broadcasting the 1995 Spanish open this a.m., won by none other than Seve B.

[Kalen Braley]

I think Trevinos comments about Seve should not be taken that he felt he was inferior to him.  While I'm sure he has his faults like anyone else, Lee is the real deal, and he will speak his mind.

Jack has said many kind words about his fellow competitors in his day as well as Tiger.  But don't think for a second that he feels like any less of golfer when compared to them.  Deep down, I'm sure Jack would have loved to take a run at Tiger when he was in his prime and firmly believed he was the better golfer.

[Mike Hendren]

I remember the gist of something that Trevino said that I find very interesting even though it is a very simple thought that most all of us miss.  He said that he attributed his excellent driving to the fact that he tried to hit his driver the same distance all the time, just like his other clubs.  

My dad absolutely loved Lee Buck Trevino.  We were watching him on the range at Augusta in 1989 hitting drivers that bounced a few times before hitting the net in front of Washington Road.  Somebody started ribbing him and Trevino launched three or four consecutive drives over the net.  

He owned the Danny Thomas Classic in Memphis and we followed him every day for years.  Dad loved his wit, but even as a teenager I found it acerbic and uncomfortable.  It always seemed to me that beneath the act there was a sad man with a chip on his shoulder.  

That said, I could watch Trevino hit golf balls all day.  In fact, when he played in the senior event in Nashville several years ago, I timed my arrival with his warm-up on the range and went back to work when he headed to the first tee.  



Mike

[Mike Hendren]

Which of the two said this:  "Breaking the rules and cheating are two different things."

Gotta love it when Ken Green called B.S. on Seve's drop left of the 10th fairway at Augusta in 1989.

Mike

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

One other thing to mention the idea Seve had more wins overall than Trevino but that needs to be kept in some sort of context. Lee's win on the PGA Tour were much more meaningful than winning the Dutch Open or the Bavarian Classic or some such other "big time" event.

Lee also played during the height of Jack Nicklaus and Tom Watson -- two of the all-time greats. Seve won on a European Tour when the sheer bulk of the fields contained far less in terms of overall star player and depth than what Trevino encountered here in the States.

Tim Pitner:

Hello anybody home? What I said was a "crock" was your inane thought Lee would be in "fear" by a player like Seve. Lee wasn't intimidated by Nicklaus -- you can be sure Seve would not have had him shaking in his boots.

In regards to handling pressure -- Lee played many a game where the size of the bets were significant -- his famous quote is worth repeating -- "pressure is playing a five dollar nassau with only two dollars in your pocket."

[Phil Benedict]

Look at how aligned Trevino's clubface is in this picture.  Years ago Golf Digest had an article about the "flat spot" in the golf swing.  I won't do justice to the concept by trying to describe it but Trevino's flat spot was huge and probably explains why he was so accurate despite his otherwise idiosynchratic technique.

[Bob_Huntley]

Which of the two said this:  "Breaking the rules and cheating are two different things."

Gotta love it when Ken Green called B.S. on Seve's drop left of the 10th fairway at Augusta in 1989.

Mike

I've mentioned this before but a used Top Flite and a ham sandwich to the first person to name the official who denied Seve relief.

Bob

[Tim Pitner]

Matt Ward,

I didn't say that Trevino feared Seve.  What I said was that Seve was a truly special player and his competition was aware of that--I think Trevino's quotes about Seve summed it up nicely.  

[PThomas]

Which of the two said this:  "Breaking the rules and cheating are two different things."

Gotta love it when Ken Green called B.S. on Seve's drop left of the 10th fairway at Augusta in 1989.

Mike

I've mentioned this before but a used Top Flite and a ham sandwich to the first person to name the official who denied Seve relief.

Bob

wasn't Tom Kite was it Bob??

[Bob_Huntley]

He owned the Danny Thomas Classic in Memphis and we followed him every day for years.  Dad loved his wit, but even as a teenager I found it acerbic and uncomfortable.  It always seemed to me that beneath the act there was a sad man with a chip on his shoulder.  



Mike

Mike,

As gregarious as he was on the golf course he could be chillingly aloof off.

At The Open when played at Muirfield, he stayed in the newer rooms at Greywalls and never entered the dining room. Everything was room service.

He claimed Augusta did not suit his ball flight etc., frankly he could hit it any number of ways. Trevino's problem was his perception that the Augusta members were sizing him up, which was absolute rubbish.

[Matt_Ward]

Tim Pitner.

I don't know if you saw Trevino at the height of his game -- too many golf fans -- just like a number of sports fans -- have little institutional memory of when others played and think little of the past.

Lee is regarded by any number of top players as the finest shotmaker the game has produced with the exception of Hogan. There wasn't a shot the man could not play and his wherewithal to be a force beyond his prime playing days is well documented. In addition, his skills with the driver are also well documented and only the likes of Nicklaus and Greg Norman are regarded as better in that category in the most modern times.

If you see Seve ahead of Trevino than you place absolutely ZERO STOCK in what they both did at the US Open -- the equal premier major along with the British Open in my book. Lee was the first player to shoot all four rounds in the 60's when he won at Oak Hill in '68. Seve simply had no real record of success with the event -- end of story.

The issue here is not about charisma or some such other touchy feely qualities. It is about pure skill at playing the game. I admire Seve for many things -- his swagger and belief in himself is certainly something all golfers should admire -- but Lee is often underlooked and undervalued by a great many people.

Jim Nugent said it best -- throw Seve into the mix when Jack and Palmer and Player were at their best and I don't se him winning the amount he did when that trio was operating at full steam. Lee encountered them all and held his own and then some.

[Robert_Walker]

Reg Murphy made the first ruling granting relief and Michael Bonalick over-ruled Reg.  MB actually thought that RM had not given SB relief.

[PThomas]

I think Jack said the only comepetitor he ever "feared" (that might not be the exact word but you get the drift) was Lee.

another story:  when Seve was in the process of nearly blowing his huge lead in the 80 Masters Jack Newton began making a charge...when Seve heard people in the gallery buzzing about Jack's play , he thought they were talking about Nicklaus, which really scared the S*(t out of him!

[Rich Goodale]

Those of you who beleive that Seve had 95 "wins" should be drug-tested.  Check out www.seveballesteros.com.  Those 95 include and range from....

1974  National  (Spanish?) Championship for under 25s, to....
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2007  Royal Trophy (Captain of winning team)

Cut out the chaff and his and Trevino's wins against real pros, mano a mano were about equal.

That being said, both were great and amongst the most fun players ever to watch.  At their peaks, however, Tervino would have beaten Seve like a drum.

Lee by 3.


 

[Mark Pearce]

One other thing to mention the idea Seve had more wins overall than Trevino but that needs to be kept in some sort of context. Lee's win on the PGA Tour were much more meaningful than winning the Dutch Open or the Bavarian Classic or some such other "big time" event.

Let me guess, the Wachovia Greater Middle of Nowhere Open is harder to win than the Dutch Open because it's in the US, right?  The point has been made above that whilst Seve was winning in Europe his competition included Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle, Langer and later Montgomerie.  Players like Ken Brown and Howard Clark weren't rubbish, either.  The suggestion that European Tour events then were easier to win than some of the less significant PGA Tour events is wishful thinking.